Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union ?

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Amber
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by Amber »

Maybe we should review the foreign policies which are helping to turn so many people into refugees and migrants then.
BucksBornNBred
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by BucksBornNBred »

I just wish there were some real figures out there so I could make an informed decision. I am in the Vote Leave camp but don't understand why, if we left, we would still have to have free movement and pay a fortune to the EU. I don't see America paying the EU billions or letting millions of people in just so they can sell their products in Europe. Why can no-one in this country actually present facts so that we can make our own decisions? I didn't understand that as a child and I still don't understand it.
SunlampVexesEel
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by SunlampVexesEel »

Amber wrote:Maybe we should review the foreign policies which are helping to turn so many people into refugees and migrants then.
Regardless of the referendum that would sound like a good idea!
Animis opibusque parati
quasimodo
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by quasimodo »

Amber wrote:Maybe we should review the foreign policies which are helping to turn so many people into refugees and migrants then.


The main problem is not the foreign policies of our government but freedom of movement within the European Union.The 2004 and 2007 enlargements of the European Union have led to mass migration from Bulgaria, Latvia, Romania, Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania into the UK.

There are a number of countries waiting to join and include Turkey (applied in 1987), Macedonia (applied in 2004), Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009) and Serbia (applied in 2009). All candidate countries except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations. Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo, whose independence is not recognised by five European Union member states, are recognised as potential candidates for membership by the European Union.

In terms of refugees as an example in Syria you can't blame the UK government for the actions of the Assad regime or the actions of Daesh.

Many immigrants who come to the UK have paid many thousands of pounds to people smugglers and come for economic reasons and lead lives as illegal immigrants in the secondary economy.The numbers are such that the immigration authorities cannot keep track of them.These will be unaffected by the EU vote.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ ... fullreport" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The link to the full report is at he end of the briefing paper which opens up as a PDF.
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Catseye
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by Catseye »

Amber wrote:Maybe we should review the foreign policies which are helping to turn so many people into refugees and migrants then.
Why are we to blame for the woes of Middle East?

Democracy is not just matter of voting but more to with democratic institutions -if democracy is not part of one's culture then it cannot be forced-Secular India/Turkey has done well.
Yes Modi and Erdoğan are trying to corrupt their secular principles.

What's the difference between India and Pakistan ? Both had the same starting point.
Catseye
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by Catseye »

um wrote:As soon as I found out that Michael Gove wanted to be out, I resolved to vote to stay in.

This is a perfectly logical way to decide what to do imho...always do the opposite of whatever Gove says :lol:
Ditto- Boris Johnson.

"people always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'"

Ian Hislop

:lol: :lol:

btw I do want Turkey to join us in the E.U and show the world that we do not discriminate against anyone all creeds are welcome provided you agree with the basic human rights as set out by the EU.
mike1880
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by mike1880 »

By inclination I'm what Mrs 1880 described this morning as a "Farragista" (a bit hypocritical from someone who came out 25% UKIP in those "whose policies do you support" surveys before the election - that's 25% more than me!) but who wants to be on the same side as the Murdoch press, the Daily Mail, Gove and Farrage? I think the best answer is probably to emigrate. At least we only have a choice of two equally unpalatable alternatives, it could be worse - we could be US citizens :lol: .
quasimodo
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by quasimodo »

Catseye wrote: btw I do want Turkey to join us in the E.U and show the world that we do not discriminate against anyone all creeds are welcome provided you agree with the basic human rights as set out by the EU.
The Turkey I want joining the EU is the country which is true to the founding principles of Ataturk. This was the country I fell in love with as a 21 year old going backpacking and seeing the Blue Mosque,Hagia Sophia,Topkapi Palace,Grand Bazar,Galata Bridge and going on a ferry on the Bosphorous.I have been back a few times since.

I don't want a Turkey which is not true to the principles of democracy,shoots protesters,closes down opposition newspapers and locks up journalists for exposing the truth. Its not really a democracy any more.At the moment they don't agree with the basic human rights as set out by the EU.You only have to read any of the reports by the International Human Rights organisations to learn the truth.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

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Amber
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by Amber »

mike1880 wrote: I think the best answer is probably to emigrate.
We have discussed doing exactly this - but where to?
mike1880 wrote:it could be worse - we could be US citizens .
My friend who could turn his green card into actual citizenship now says he has had the papers on his desk for six months now but can't quite bring himself to do it - he keeps asking himself if it is worse to be American than British and says at the moment it is a 'yes' to that. If Trump gets in he will probably have to come home anyway as there will no doubt be some kind of exclusion clause for foreigners 'until we know what the h ell is going on'.

As OH said last night - Osborne on one side and Gove on the other. If you are doing this on personalities, it really is the devil and the deep blue sea, isn't it?
Amber
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Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by Amber »

quasimodo wrote:I don't want a Turkey which is not true to the principles of democracy,shoots protesters,closes down opposition newspapers and locks up journalists for exposing the truth. Its not really a democracy any more.At the moment they don't agree with the basic human rights as set out by the EU.You only have to read any of the reports by the International Human Rights organisations to learn the truth.
Indeed; but how many people realise that there is a gradual reduction, albeit by different means, of freedom of speech in this country too? This report details something very dangerous indeed:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... net-office" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In my own field, social sciences, state funding is now as rare as hens' teeth, and priority is always given to particular types of research. The gradual stifling of the voices of the academic community is something not many care about, but it is a very good way of reducing opposition to things governments don't like. Branding people as 'the Blob' and dismissing academics as sandal-wearing lefties can be amusing but is also damaging, and in our country at the moment as we have no effective opposition, the right-wing Government can march on with its policies effectively unchallenged. Someone in politics last year said to me and some colleagues, 'you are the opposition now' which is kind of scary for everyone!
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