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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Thought I would start a new thread for those willing to continue the fight to keep the UK in the EU.

The good news is that the EU referendum result is not legally binding. See the following from the Guardian:

Is the EU referendum legally binding?

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.

An exception was the 2011 referendum on changing the electoral system to alternative vote, where the relevant legislation obligated the government to change the law to reflect a “yes” vote had that occurred. No such provision was contained within the EU referendum legislation.


As discussed on the other thread, there is a petition to Parliament for a 2nd EU referendum (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215). If millions of people sign on (1.5 million have already done so), it could provide cover to Parliament to take action (whether convening another referendum or something else).

I am aware that some hold the view that we need to respect the outcome no matter how much we dislike it. However, others feel that they have been deceived by the Leave camp and there are also those who voted Leave to register a protest (but not thinking that Leave will prevail) who now regret their decisions.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:06 pm 
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It is a noble cause, LITS, but I feel ultimately also a lost one. I shall nonetheless keep mouthing off about it!

I am more minded to try and start some kind of campaign for political science education in schools and maybe for a lowering of the voting age to 16 (if they are old enough to have sex, aren't they old enough to vote? I don't know).

Either way, it is a dark episode for democracy and ought to be a wake-up call for those who think it is OK to take the right to vote lightly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:14 pm 
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LostInTheShuffle wrote:

I am aware that some hold the view that we need to respect the outcome no matter how much we dislike it. However, others feel that they have been deceived by the Leave camp and there are also those who voted Leave to register a protest (but not thinking that Leave will prevail) who now regret their decisions.


Plenty of the latter popping up all over the place. And a significant portion of the former in Cornwall, where some people were apparently quite happy to believe that the UK voting 'leave' would have no effect at all on the millions that they were due to be given by the EU.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:42 pm 
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Amber wrote:
It is a noble cause, LITS, but I feel ultimately also a lost one. I shall nonetheless keep mouthing off about it!

I am more minded to try and start some kind of campaign for political science education in schools and maybe for a lowering of the voting age to 16 (if they are old enough to have sex, aren't they old enough to vote? I don't know).

Either way, it is a dark episode for democracy and ought to be a wake-up call for those who think it is OK to take the right to vote lightly.

Like you, I am highly distraught by the outcome and particularly saddened about the impact on the next generation. There is so much at stake - the unity of the EU, the unity of the UK, significant economic harm for all concerned, missed opportunities for our children, etc - that I felt an exploration of a way out was worth the effort.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:06 pm 
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Re the lowering of voting age.
My DD's school had a mock referendum and 82% were in favour of staying, this included many teachers too.

Bearing in mind that younger people were more likely to vote remain than leave, if 16/17 yo had been allowed to vote across the country, the result could have been quite different.

These are the ones who have to live with result the longest.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:19 pm 
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There are approx 1.34 million 16&17 year olds in the UK

If all registered

and If all voted (unlikely as probably 30-50 % of 18-24 year olds voted)

and if all voted Remain then it might just have made it a closer result.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:22 pm 
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hermanmunster wrote:
There are approx 1.34 million 16&17 year olds in the UK

If all registered

and If all voted (unlikely as probably 30-50 % of 18-24 year olds voted)

and if all voted Remain then it might just have made it a closer result.
It was pretty close anyway.

If all the people who are now saying 'Oh I didn't realise this would happen, sorry' had voted remain we would be in a rather different place too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:47 pm
Posts: 2582
LostInTheShuffle wrote:
Thought I would start a new thread for those willing to continue the fight to keep the UK in the EU.

The good news is that the EU referendum result is not legally binding. See the following from the Guardian:

Is the EU referendum legally binding?

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.

An exception was the 2011 referendum on changing the electoral system to alternative vote, where the relevant legislation obligated the government to change the law to reflect a “yes” vote had that occurred. No such provision was contained within the EU referendum legislation.


As discussed on the other thread, there is a petition to Parliament for a 2nd EU referendum (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215). If millions of people sign on (1.5 million have already done so), it could provide cover to Parliament to take action (whether convening another referendum or something else).

I am aware that some hold the view that we need to respect the outcome no matter how much we dislike it. However, others feel that they have been deceived by the Leave camp and there are also those who voted Leave to register a protest (but not thinking that Leave will prevail) who now regret their decisions.


You are obviously a democrat ? We are a mature democracy and follow the wishes of the people.I happen on this occasion to feel that everything possible was done to ensure the result was to remain.Whether this was taxpayers money used for propaganda on behalf of the remain campaign,the use of the civil service,the use of the machinery of the state,the use of the resources of big business,the intervention of many world leaders including many in the EU or the views expressed and conveyed by many organisations(and these are only a small part of the effort).Worst of all when the registration process had problems which didn't allow individuals to register in the last one and half hours the government ensured legislation was passed which allowed another 48 hours for registration and another 436,000 people to register who were probably in favour of remain.Those democrats on the leave side couldn't complain.When the result came I thought with all this effort it would be remain even though I supported leave against my short term economic interests knowing it will be better for many around me in the long run.If it had been remain I would have had to accept the result even though I can see the harm it is doing to many in the area around me.Democracy works both ways.

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In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

Abraham Lincoln


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:59 am
Posts: 1656
quasimodo wrote:
LostInTheShuffle wrote:
Thought I would start a new thread for those willing to continue the fight to keep the UK in the EU.

The good news is that the EU referendum result is not legally binding. See the following from the Guardian:

Is the EU referendum legally binding?

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.

An exception was the 2011 referendum on changing the electoral system to alternative vote, where the relevant legislation obligated the government to change the law to reflect a “yes” vote had that occurred. No such provision was contained within the EU referendum legislation.


As discussed on the other thread, there is a petition to Parliament for a 2nd EU referendum (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215). If millions of people sign on (1.5 million have already done so), it could provide cover to Parliament to take action (whether convening another referendum or something else).

I am aware that some hold the view that we need to respect the outcome no matter how much we dislike it. However, others feel that they have been deceived by the Leave camp and there are also those who voted Leave to register a protest (but not thinking that Leave will prevail) who now regret their decisions.


You are obviously a democrat ? We are a mature democracy and follow the wishes of the people.I happen on this occasion to feel that everything possible was done to ensure the result was to remain.Whether this was taxpayers money used for propaganda on behalf of the remain campaign,the use of the civil service,the use of the machinery of the state,the use of the resources of big business,the intervention of many world leaders including many in the EU or the views expressed and conveyed by many organisations(and these are only a small part of the effort).Worst of all when the registration process had problems which didn't allow individuals to register in the last one and half hours the government ensured legislation was passed which allowed another 48 hours for registration and another 436,000 people to register who were probably in favour of remain.Those democrats on the leave side couldn't complain.When the result came I thought with all this effort it would be remain even though I supported leave against my short term economic interests knowing it will be better for many around me in the long run.If it had been remain I would have had to accept the result even though I can see the harm it is doing to many in the area around me.Democracy works both ways.


I respect your right to your vote and your opinion, however, if you believed that not everybody voted on something so important, wouldn't you want a second vote?
A lot of people are only now waking up to the reality of what they have voted for or didn't bother to vote for!
Where were all those young people whose futures were at stake? Did they trust the older generations to do the sensible thing?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Posts: 5922
quasimodo wrote:
We are a mature democracy .
No we are not. A mature democracy would consist of people who were fully informed and engaged in the political process; and it would consist of policy makers who were acting honestly and not duplicitously. For a referendum to work, people need to understand the choice they face and the consequences of either option. This did not happen here, for a host of reasons - lack of education and understanding of the process and the potential outcomes; lack of transparency and honesty (as it now turns out) from some of the key players; and a question far too important to be put to a referendum.

At the very least you need to have the mechanisms in place to deal with either outcome and we do not have that here - the victors don't know what to do with their victory, and many who chose them now say they didn't understand what they were choosing. That is not a mature democracy, it is a travesty.


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