Go to navigation
It is currently Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:00 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 625
Hi

"Grammar schools could be required to take more children from ..................... ethnic minority backgrounds to reflect the social make-up of their communities" The Sunday Telegraph, April 6th 2008.

Surely, there is an implication for those grammar schools where the ethnic population of the school is greater than the ethnic population of the community and it could be implied that such schools should seek to reduce their ethnic population in favour of the indigenous white population within that community.

As studies have shown that children and parents from some ethnic backgrounds are far more committted to education than the indigenous population, surely the government proposals would undermine and fail to reward the hard work and dedication of such groups.

The missing wording from The Sunday Telgraph quote above is "from poor and", again the government proposals would not do any favours for ethnic groups. The determining factor for poverty in schools is the delivery of free school meals.
Studies have shown that parents from some ethnic groups are harder working than the indigenous population and come to this country as highly educated and skilled people working in high paid jobs.

The social make-up of the indigenous population contains a higher proportion of low-skilled, low paid single parents with little family support, than some ethnic groups, it is this indigenous population that would benefit from the government proposals.

The government provides little or no support or preparation for 11+ entrance tests. It is left to the parent to provide whatever support they can.
It is most likely that parents with a higher income will have better prepared children for the tests, as is the case with the children who attend preparatory schools.

If the government wanted to make the selection process fairer for both ethnic minority children and children from poor families they should review the entrance requirements for the selective schools and ensure that suitable free preparation is available in the state primary schools.

Regards

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 11934
There is an interesting picture in Buckinghamshire - one or two of the GS have a much higher proportion of children from 'poor' families than a number of Upper schools ....

Not all GS are full of white middle class children - this report is clearly under-researched.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:14 pm
Posts: 739
Location: Gloucester
In our area of the country not all grammar schools fit with this view-quote from the OFSTED report of the school that DS will start in September-


Quote:
The students attending are mainly from the city of Gloucester but others travel from the surrounding area. Many students attend the school from areas of higher than average socio-economic deprivation.


Other grammars do seem to have an image of white middle class parenting,although the same could be said for the more popular comprehensives in the area too!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
Posts: 8112
... more social engineering... :?

Ironic really as a great many of the kids at grammar school now will be the kids of parents who benefited from another (IMO) more benficial effort at social engineering - the 1944 education act - which at least offered free secondary education to all and opened up higher education to many who could not afford it - regardless of background
How many people here are the first generation of their families to go to University? We are.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
In my town, from what I've seen, the ethnic mix at the schools matches the population. One small exception is that the only child of Hong-Kong extraction goes to another town where there's a Church Sponsored school that matches his parents religion (OK, one parent's religion as the other is an atheist).

_________________
Capers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:49 am 
I think in the past we needed to do something about achievement in ethnic minority groups, but now we need to focus on white working class boys who are leaving school illiterate and jobless, and with a poor attitude too :(


Personally I think Asian families are very focused on academic achievement, at times to the exclusion of other things (comment from my best friend who is Asian), so its not surprising that certain professions are filled with this ethnic group - doctors, pharmacists, dentists. How patronised must this group feel by the government thinking they are not able to look after their kids when it comes to academic achievement! :x


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 625
Hi

There are only 164 selective schools in the country, all of which have regular OFSTED reports that could identify the social mix of the school compared to the community. It, therefore, should not be too difficult for the government to complete a thorough program of research.

The government makes a decision to pass the responsibility of selection onto individual LEAs and schools. Having made this decision, they then impose certain controls on these organisations. They are now seeking to impose a series of social-engineering solutions on the organisations that will not achieve their aims.

The illiterate white male child is a product of his environment, he is at the lower end of the academic spectrum and his achievement level is controlled by his pre-school environment. By the time he reaches 11+ age he is so far behind his peers that the likelihood of him attempting the test is low.

Children who live in areas of low socio-economic standards do not necessarily come from poor families. In the instance of Wirral Grammar schools a number of children attend from Ellesmere Port, a town of supposed deprivation. Many of these children have parents working at the managerial level. The class divide is more a determining factor than the area where someone lives.

Being relatively poor is also not necessarily a determing factor for some families. Family poverty can have a range of different causes; divorce, bereavement, bankruptcy etc. However, within such families where parents attended grammar schools or attained a high level of education there is a greater commitment to education and these families are more likely to commit funds and their own time to give their children a better opportunity.

The government appears to see the child as a single entity, rather than a product of inter-linking environmental and social factors. Rather than focussing on the selection procedures of the selective schools they would achieve their aims more effectively if they identified particularly bright children in areas of social deprivation and provided them with a decent education at an early age.

Regards

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 445
Location: LONDON
Quote:
There are only 164 selective schools in the country, all of which have regular OFSTED reports that could identify the social mix of the school compared to the community. It, therefore, should not be too difficult for the government to complete a thorough program of research.


There are enough of us on this website to help the government do the job they are clearly not capable of!!

I found this on a newsletter for QE boys Barnet suggesting they take pupils from ethnic minority backgrounds. However, as the boys come from a wide area of London (several London Boroughs) and Hertfordshire what I don't know is how representative they are of the community around the school and I'm not sure how you would easily obtain that data.

[quote]Today, according to OFSTED’s latest “raise
on lineâ€


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Grammar school intake
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:53 pm
Posts: 139
Location: wolverhampton
This seems like just another attempt by the government to dilute the success of grammar schools by suggesting some sort of quota system.

Many grammar schools are located near or in city centres for historical reasons. The area around them in the past may have been pleasant suburbia but as cities have expanded the suburbs have moved outwards and many former family homes have been converted into flats for students and recent arrivals. It seems that now grammar schools have to be "punished" for factors outside their control.

About 30% of the girls at my daughter's school are of Asian (Indian and Pakistani) orgin. However, though there is a large Asian population within a mile of the school, most Asian girls come from further afield. The key factor in applications to the school is parental aspiration (in the past children without supportive parents might have been encouraged to apply by their primary school teachers - but I doubt this happens any more). My friend's daughter attends one of the best state schools in the US and again more than 90% of the kids are white or asian though the school is sited in an area with a large percentage of hispanic immigrants.

I do find it ironic that like many other poor children I was offered a leg-up by a grammar school education only to find that in the government's view the leg-up voucher is valid for one generation only (obviously I didn't read the small print) and it's my moral duty to send my children to the grottiest comp in town so that someone else can have a turn.

If the goverment really wanted more poor kids to go to grammar schools they would expand the grammar system and encourage primary schools to push the more able kids in their direction.

Let's face it the government hates grammar schools and their success and will apply any means it can to undermine them. As the Japanese say "The nail that sticks up must be banged down".

Resmum


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:41 pm
Posts: 60
What no one in the government seems to take on board is genetics. It seems completely obvious that dim mothers will marry (or more usually not marry) dim fathers and produce dim children who are less likely to pass the 11+.
Most people seem to be quite OK with breeding cats or dogs on this basis but refuse to apply the same commonsense rules to children! The teachers at OH's placement school when he did teacher training attributed behaviour of "learners"(!!) to 300 years of inbreeding. So I dont think clumsy government attempts to alter social make up of grammar schools are going to work.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016