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 Post subject: ABOLITION OF GRAMMARS
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:49 am
Posts: 19
I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO HEAR OF GENERAL THOUGHTS ABOUT BROWN'S BACK-BENCHERS INTENTION TO FORCE THE ISSUE OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL ABOLITION BACK ONTO THEIR WARPED AGENDA. THEY HOPE TO GET AN AMENDMENT INTO BROWN'S BILL FOR COMPULSORY EDUCATION TO AGE 18, WHICH AMENDMENT WOULD EFFECTIVELY ABOLISH GRAMMARS, IN EXCHANGE FOR SUPPORTING HIS BILL.
READING BETWEEN THE LINES, THIS MAY BE A REAL ISSUE SINCE HIS CURRENT STANDING WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY MAY MEAN HE OFFERS A SOP TO THE LEFTIES IN ORDER TO GET THE BILL ONTO THE STATUTE BOOK .
ANYBODY GOT ANY IDEAS WHERE THE TORIES STAND ON THIS?

WE HAVE JUST BEEN THROUGH THE MILL CHOOSING A SUITABLE PRIMARY FOR OUR CHILD IN ORDER TO GET HER A GOOD TILT AT THE 11 PLUS. -- SINCERELY HOPE THAT THIS WILL NOT DERAIL OUR ASPIRATIONS.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:29 am 
This makes me so cross. Champagne Socialists who only got where they are today because of their private or grammar education, but they are so spineless that they will change their believes to become popular with the masses. The economy would be in tatters without these schools as thats where most of the high-earning, high-tax-paying workers come from! :x


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:51 am
Posts: 52
Location: The Garden of England
Grrr.....don't get me started!

Agree with both of you. Abolishing grammars/ academic selection is a totemic issue for 'the left' - as (whatever your views) was the case over hunting.

Having campaigned for both (and marched for the latter!) in the letters section of my local paper over many years I am reasonably pleased that the hunting legislation has been a complete fiasco and that hunting continues largely as before. I imagine any changes over academic selection would take a long time and would result in a similar mess. Just look at what is going on in Northern Ireland under the Luddite Sinn Fein 'education' minister!

After all, if you want to make us all equal it is a lot easier to bring everyone down to the level of the lowest than to try to get those at the bottom to aspire to - let alone reach - the level of those at the top.

"Mediocrity for all, excellence for none!" for me absolutely sums up everything about this appalling New Labour regime..

Mercifully it may well run out of time before thay can do too much further damage to this country's institutions, social fabric and standing..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Bexley
I always remember watching Roy Hattersley on Question Time a couple of years ago saying very forcefully that grammar schools should be abolished (having benefitted from one himself) because he thought it was ridiculous that schools spent most of year 6 cramming children to pass the 11+ instead of educating them...... I've still not got over the shock of realising that someone so intelligent didn't realise that its was cramming for KS2 SATs that takes place in state schools at Y6 - at the expense of children's education - and that state primaries do no work for the 11+ at all.

I do hope what David 55 says is not true. I have heard a head teacher in my area say that, if something isn't done to improve the failing non-selectives in our borough he wouldn't be surprised if there was a move to do away with the grammars. I suppose then, instead of having good schools and bad schools, all our children could go to mediocre schools. The thing I like most about my sons' grammar school is that it's cool to be clever and take part in activities which I suspect in some schools would be considered geeky.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:24 am 
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Posts: 2125
Yes, David - I picked up on that snippet, too. I wouldn't worry about it too much for the time being, as there is no way such an amendment could be quietly "sneaked through". It would cause such a stink among the very voters that the Government wants to get/keep on board that I wouldn't be surprised if the whole compulsory education to 18 business is either shelved or drastically tinkered with (U-turn? Perish the thought! :lol: )

Poor old Golden Brown is going to find himself between a rock and a hard place on this issue, I think!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:35 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
Dear David 55,

PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! It makes the message so much harder to read.

I disagree with the abolition of grammars. My mixed grammar school was merged with the secondary girls school next door back in 1976. However, this was by a Conservative County Council under a Conservative government policy.

Back then in the days of much less tutoring, the intake was of very mixed social classes - based on academic ability, not ability to pay. My class had the children of doctors, architects... and a crane driver, building labourer, plasterers; we were a very mixed bunch, but all got on well. It gave the chance for any child who was bright to get an appropriate education.

Now not all Tory supporters liked this. Some were moderately well off (not well enough to pay for Private), but not academically bright, and called for comprehensive education so they didn't have the embarrassment of not going to the 'best' school in the area.

So I'm not sure that grammars will do any better under a Conservative government that a Labour one. And I have no idea what the Lib Dems currently think.

Now locally to me, the Conservative parliamentary candidates son passed the 11+ this year, so I imagine he'll be supporting the school (especially as he's just been put onto the board of governors for the school), whereas the labour sitting MP is pretty anti-grammar. But I wouldn't bet on that nationally.

I do belong to a political party, but I don't follow the party line for education. All I can say is please make sure that person who is likely to win in your next Westminster election knows why grammars are important. These people are quite approachable (especially if you've got a bottle of wine in your hand), and do listen. And they all want your vote (which you don't have to give to them just because they help you :wink: )

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:47 am 
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Posts: 235
Location: South Warwickshire
I seem to remember that famous Champagne socialist David Cameron made the abolition of grammar schools a central pillar of his education strategy when he was first made Tory leader, but was forced to back down by the his own traditionalists. It is amazing how short some people's memories are! It wasn't that long ago.

This comes up every so often from both parties (never the lib dems - they love grammars). It always makes the news, because of the excitement it generates (as evidenced above) but it will never happen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:51 am 
Bad Dad wrote:
I seem to remember that famous Champagne socialist David Cameron made the abolition of grammar schools a central pillar of his education strategy when he was first made Tory leader, but was forced to back down by the his own traditionalists. It is amazing how short some people's memories are! It wasn't that long ago.

This comes up every so often from both parties (never the lib dems - they love grammars). It always makes the news, because of the excitement it generates (as evidenced above) but it will never happen.


DC is not a socialist!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 1149
Location: Finchley - Barnet
T.i.p.s.y wrote:
Bad Dad wrote:
I seem to remember that famous Champagne socialist David Cameron made the abolition of grammar schools a central pillar of his education strategy when he was first made Tory leader, but was forced to back down by the his own traditionalists. It is amazing how short some people's memories are! It wasn't that long ago.

This comes up every so often from both parties (never the lib dems - they love grammars). It always makes the news, because of the excitement it generates (as evidenced above) but it will never happen.


DC is not a socialist!


He is more of a socialist than Tony Blair ever was! By the way what is the definition of a socialist nowdays?
:lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
sj355 wrote:
By the way what is the definition of a socialist nowdays?

A member of the Green Party?

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