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 Post subject: Grammar admission pass mark 326Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:36 pm

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:31 pm
Posts: 188
Location: London
Hi,

I have seen a couple of grammar schools using 326 as pass mark for their admission tests.

These two schools have different tests. One has 3 tests (VR, Math and English, comprehension and essay). The second has only 2 tests, VR and Math.

How do they arrive to the mark? How can I estimate the mark from the tests we practice at home?

Thanks

Giulio

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 Post subject: Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:26 pm

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1301
Location: Birmingham
Hi Giulo

You should read up about Age Standardisation (check the link from the home page)

326 will be the sum of 3 Age Standardisations; so the average (minimum) that will have to be achieved for each paper (VR, Maths and English/comp) will be 109 per paper (108.67 rounded up) - this is about the 72nd percentile of scores. (ie 28% pass, 72% fail)

For the Grammar school that has only 2 papers, you may find that they have incorporated some additional NVR type questions in one or both papers. In this situation, the NVR questions will be extracted from paper(s) and marked separately; again given 3 sets of marks.

Making an assessement at home, depends on the particular Grammar School and the type of 11+ exam, they come in many flavours. Of course you should try to practice on papers that are similar to the real exam.

Best thing is to find out the particular school and LEA and post the question again on that forum.

Hope this helps

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:58 am

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:31 pm
Posts: 188
Location: London
Thanks Ken, great info.
So it also means that I can't calculate a mark at home unless I guess the ability of the group.

So the questions is, what is the average and distribution of responses on a given test?

For example, take a Bond test in Math, x questions, what would be the average number of right answers?

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:12 am

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1301
Location: Birmingham
Guilio

As a general rule of thumb, I have heard many tutors often quote an average raw scores of about 85%-87% on NFR VR & NVR papers as being equivalent to about the 87th percentile which is probably close to the pass mark in some of the harder grammars. So many tutors often like the children to be scoring close to 90% consistently.

But please remember than this would be for a NFER 11+ exams, many schools no longer use NFER and a child who scores well in NFER doesn't necessarily score well in other tests. In addition, the scores can vary from test to test and year to year.

Hope this helps

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:45 pm

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:15 pm
Posts: 253
Location: Birmingham
Hi KenR,

This is of some interest to me as my daughter is sitting Sutton and QM girls both of which are Nfer. Do the figures you quote relate to these schools,please? My daughter is early Sept born.

Thanks for any help you can offer
Regards
Clarendon

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:21 pm

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1301
Location: Birmingham
Hi Clarendon

You need to treat these figures with extreme caution. This was quoted to me several years ago by a teacher in a prep school that taught 'Study Skills' (VR & NRV to you and me).

This related to the KE Foundation 11+ Exams but it was the last year of NFER before they switched across to Univ of Durham.

The Sutton Girls Grammar exam, run by the B/Ham LEA, is still based on NFER is believe so it's probably not way out. However, having said that, the Sutton and Bishop Vesey pass marks re slightly less than some of the KE Foundation Schools, so there may be a little latitude.

My 2 children were both scoring in the low 90's for NFER, although they ocassionally had a blip and scored in the mid to high 80's. They both passed the KE Foundation Exams, so I guess there's some empirical evidence that the assumptions are not way out.

Regards

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:34 pm
To Clarendon,

Last year there was very little age adjustment made to the scores for Sutton.
It was a fairly easy exam accordingly to all my pupils so you needed high marks for a good standardised score.

Here are some sample marks and their standardisation from last year:

NVR ; 39/40 ( 124), 36/40 (112) 33/40 (105)

Maths: 40/50 (107) 45/50 (116) 48/50 (127)

VR : 44/45 (141), 43/45 (133) 42/45 (127), 37/45 (116)

As you can see, there was a real premium last year in being good at verbal reasoning.

Most of my pupils went up about 4 from the average in their NFER practice tests (one actually went up 10!). In non-verbal most of mine were scoring about 10/12 in test C and D, and went on to get 36/40, but it was a really easy test in that it was codes and matrices. I would expect something different this year. As to VR, the one with 44/45 scored anything from 70 to 80 out of 85 in the practice tests. The 37/45 varied between 72 and 75.

The most any of my pupils scored in practice in the maths last year was 90%, the lowest was a consistent 74% from one of the girls who still managed to be 26 points over the last score. I did have some higher scores in verbal but again I had some scoring consistently about 82% in practice. I don't tend to record the non-verbal as it is the last thing I do before the exam.

What you can't gauge is what the child will do when she enters that exam room. I have read that you should knock off some points from what they do in practice but all mine exceeded their normal scores.

Hope this helps or reassures.

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:29 pm

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:15 pm
Posts: 253
Location: Birmingham
Thank you both KenR and fm. My daughter's forte is NVR which she loves and whizzes accurately thru'. On Nfer maths she's averaging 80-85% but admitting to careless mistakes which hopefully will not be made on the day.VR most recent is Nfer 11c she scored 92%. Sounds as tho' she should be OK if she can keep a cool head on the day and there are no nasty surprises? She's starting to get nervous about all the forthcoming tests... particularly since the KE Handsworth open day when the head said it looked like a bumper year and was the first time extra chairs for the hall for her speech had to be found.
Also unhelpful comments have been made to her such as because she is Sept birthday she will have points deducted! That really panicked her and had to reassure her.
Sutton is her 3rd choice behind CHILL and KE Handsworth.

Thanks for your help... I may seek it again over the next couple of months. Clarendon

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:34 pm

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:31 pm
Posts: 188
Location: London
fm wrote:
...

Here are some sample marks and their standardisation from last year:

NVR ; 39/40 ( 124), 36/40 (112) 33/40 (105)

Maths: 40/50 (107) 45/50 (116) 48/50 (127)

VR : 44/45 (141), 43/45 (133) 42/45 (127), 37/45 (116)

....

Thanks fm, this insight is very useful, gives me a clear idea of where my children stand.

Do you have similar indications for English?

Giulio

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