regime in Grammar Schools
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Re: regime in Grammar Schools
To continue my previous email I quote a message posted to this site a fortnight ago. Again with a pinch of slat, this is an impression from a prospective applicant for the A levels 12 years ago:
"
While I didn't go to QE Boys, I did apply there to do my A-Levels in 1994 since my then school, East Barnet, didn't offer all the subjects I wanted to do. I was interviewed by the then headmaster a certain Dr John Marinkowitz who, on the back of my fairly favourable school reports, was quite keen to offer me a place.
He went to great lengths to sell the school's image to me and my father, who came along to the interview with me, and constantly kept referring to "our boys" and all the virtues they embodied. He also made a great point of showing us the school's Olympic size swimming pool, which by the sounds of your article "Typical QE Boys Students" was the site of a despicable and shameful episode which was subsequently glorified on Friends Reunited by a certain Stephen Killick, who embodies all that is wrong with our society.
Marinkowitz's office I remember had this old-fashioned scholarly feel about it with dark leather armchairs and all the fixtures and fittings beloved of Oxbridge dons. With hindsight, it didn't feel like an office meant to serve a material purpose but were there to bolster the academic sensibilities and the ego of this very cold and clinical man whose handshake was disproportionately firm if my memory serves me correctly.
Suffice to say, I decided against going to QE Boys to do my A-Levels mainly on gut instinct. Instead, I went to Latymer which while not as bad as QE Boys still had all the marks of the exam factories that middle class parents would sell their kidneys to send their precious darlings there and carry on preserving the middle class as the parasitic, sterile and morally bankrupt class that it has become.
Education is not an asset to bolster the egos neither for teachers, nor academics nor any holder of academic fetishes such as GCSEs, A-Levels and degrees. It is a universal human right and the elitism in education is bolstering the wider social backwardness that encirles our society and that institutions such as QE Boys have come to embody. In one of your articles you said that QE staff instilled a besieged mentality and in many ways their instincts are right. They are besieged by a society with a thirst to learn. Your site is not just a chink on the ivory tower known as QE Boys but on the entire archaic and elitist superstructure that holds progress back. For this you are to be commended. Keep up the good work!"
Regards,
"
While I didn't go to QE Boys, I did apply there to do my A-Levels in 1994 since my then school, East Barnet, didn't offer all the subjects I wanted to do. I was interviewed by the then headmaster a certain Dr John Marinkowitz who, on the back of my fairly favourable school reports, was quite keen to offer me a place.
He went to great lengths to sell the school's image to me and my father, who came along to the interview with me, and constantly kept referring to "our boys" and all the virtues they embodied. He also made a great point of showing us the school's Olympic size swimming pool, which by the sounds of your article "Typical QE Boys Students" was the site of a despicable and shameful episode which was subsequently glorified on Friends Reunited by a certain Stephen Killick, who embodies all that is wrong with our society.
Marinkowitz's office I remember had this old-fashioned scholarly feel about it with dark leather armchairs and all the fixtures and fittings beloved of Oxbridge dons. With hindsight, it didn't feel like an office meant to serve a material purpose but were there to bolster the academic sensibilities and the ego of this very cold and clinical man whose handshake was disproportionately firm if my memory serves me correctly.
Suffice to say, I decided against going to QE Boys to do my A-Levels mainly on gut instinct. Instead, I went to Latymer which while not as bad as QE Boys still had all the marks of the exam factories that middle class parents would sell their kidneys to send their precious darlings there and carry on preserving the middle class as the parasitic, sterile and morally bankrupt class that it has become.
Education is not an asset to bolster the egos neither for teachers, nor academics nor any holder of academic fetishes such as GCSEs, A-Levels and degrees. It is a universal human right and the elitism in education is bolstering the wider social backwardness that encirles our society and that institutions such as QE Boys have come to embody. In one of your articles you said that QE staff instilled a besieged mentality and in many ways their instincts are right. They are besieged by a society with a thirst to learn. Your site is not just a chink on the ivory tower known as QE Boys but on the entire archaic and elitist superstructure that holds progress back. For this you are to be commended. Keep up the good work!"
Regards,
[/quote]moose wrote:This question is addresssed to parents who already have children in Grammars particulary Latymer/QE . Are these schools really that tough, demanding, with copious amount of homework, rat racing for better marks, as you hear (often from people who do not get kids there).
If so, why are we so determined to get our children into this cold and unfriendly environment ?
Any comments are very welcome.
sj355
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Guest
Ditto the comments of our son's teacher. She described it "tough and very competitive". She definetely did not mean it in the academic sense as she is the same person putting down our son's name in the "Gifted and Talented children" register for Maths. I have a friend whose older son is already at QE and her second is taking the exam this year. She says the pressure is immnese but her older son is one of these kids which will not allow others to stress them no matter what. It helps that his is literally a genious so it takes him usually a few minutes to do any task! However she too, is having second thoughs for her younger son...
Anonymous wrote:We are amidst deciding whether our son sits the QE test next week. His headteacher recently also described it as a harsh environment. We really need to know more. Can some parents with boys at QE please come forward!
sj355
I also read the QEB website 'The Truth' a few years ago when I was looking at schools for my oldest child. Yes it frightened the life out of me too and was an influencing factor in finally deciding not to go down the selective route and choose the local comp (a decision that I am happy about). Oldest son is very bright, outgoing child but a bit of a rebal who likes to be top of the heap, doesn't like strict discipline and likes to learn under his own terms rather than be dictated at. Hence the comp is suiting him down to the ground and he is acheiving everything that I expect of him socially and academically without heaps of pressure.
Sj355, it strikes me that your second post has been lifted from the unoffical QE website site - am I correct? Having read and re-read that site those boys sound like my child (minus the language I hope) in so much as the environment was never geared towards their personality. When we visited the school it was very much a case of this is the way we do it and if you don't like it choose another school. I would think for your childs sake that QE is a school you choose because your child face fits the ethos rather than choosing it purely on reputation/exam results. As parents we need to be very honest with ourselves when choosing secondary schools (if we have that much choice) and make sure the environment is one our child will thrive in rather than going for the 'kudos' of having a child at a specific school. If you do have a child whose face 'fits' (I'm currently trying to fathom out if my second child falls into that category) then go for it. There are positive postings from parents whose children are at QE so it can't be all bad!! However, I am not a QE parent so if there are any others out there aswell James (who I saw posting on another thread) it would be good to get your honest opinion.
Sj355, it strikes me that your second post has been lifted from the unoffical QE website site - am I correct? Having read and re-read that site those boys sound like my child (minus the language I hope) in so much as the environment was never geared towards their personality. When we visited the school it was very much a case of this is the way we do it and if you don't like it choose another school. I would think for your childs sake that QE is a school you choose because your child face fits the ethos rather than choosing it purely on reputation/exam results. As parents we need to be very honest with ourselves when choosing secondary schools (if we have that much choice) and make sure the environment is one our child will thrive in rather than going for the 'kudos' of having a child at a specific school. If you do have a child whose face 'fits' (I'm currently trying to fathom out if my second child falls into that category) then go for it. There are positive postings from parents whose children are at QE so it can't be all bad!! However, I am not a QE parent so if there are any others out there aswell James (who I saw posting on another thread) it would be good to get your honest opinion.
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Guest
The second message is as I mention a letter posted to the unofficial QE site a fortnight ago by someone who considered going to QE for his A levels in 1994, but decided in favour of Latymer in the end.
In all frankness I do not know what type my child is as he is too young to have formed a "type" and people do change. He is bright (extremely so in maths), an extrovert with a very good sense of humor. At the same time he is shy with people he does not know and he is not competitive at all, precisely because I always say to him that no-one likes an insufferable know-all. At the same time being at the top of his class in Maths and English has made wonders for his self esteem and is a lot more confident that he was say 3 years ago. He is not the natural leader of the crowd, but he is definetely the unusual type that will never follow the herd unless he is utterly convinced he likes what they do and finds it smart and enjoyable. He does not like discipline (who does?) , but also finds it very tiring when there is too much noise in his class and wishes that the teacher would ask everyone to just shut up. As I said he is too young...
Regards,
In all frankness I do not know what type my child is as he is too young to have formed a "type" and people do change. He is bright (extremely so in maths), an extrovert with a very good sense of humor. At the same time he is shy with people he does not know and he is not competitive at all, precisely because I always say to him that no-one likes an insufferable know-all. At the same time being at the top of his class in Maths and English has made wonders for his self esteem and is a lot more confident that he was say 3 years ago. He is not the natural leader of the crowd, but he is definetely the unusual type that will never follow the herd unless he is utterly convinced he likes what they do and finds it smart and enjoyable. He does not like discipline (who does?) , but also finds it very tiring when there is too much noise in his class and wishes that the teacher would ask everyone to just shut up. As I said he is too young...
Regards,
loulou wrote:I also read the QEB website 'The Truth' a few years ago when I was looking at schools for my oldest child. Yes it frightened the life out of me too and was an influencing factor in finally deciding not to go down the selective route and choose the local comp (a decision that I am happy about). Oldest son is very bright, outgoing child but a bit of a rebal who likes to be top of the heap, doesn't like strict discipline and likes to learn under his own terms rather than be dictated at. Hence the comp is suiting him down to the ground and he is acheiving everything that I expect of him socially and academically without heaps of pressure.
Sj355, it strikes me that your second post has been lifted from the unoffical QE website site - am I correct? Having read and re-read that site those boys sound like my child (minus the language I hope) in so much as the environment was never geared towards their personality. When we visited the school it was very much a case of this is the way we do it and if you don't like it choose another school. I would think for your childs sake that QE is a school you choose because your child face fits the ethos rather than choosing it purely on reputation/exam results. As parents we need to be very honest with ourselves when choosing secondary schools (if we have that much choice) and make sure the environment is one our child will thrive in rather than going for the 'kudos' of having a child at a specific school. If you do have a child whose face 'fits' (I'm currently trying to fathom out if my second child falls into that category) then go for it. There are positive postings from parents whose children are at QE so it can't be all bad!! However, I am not a QE parent so if there are any others out there aswell James (who I saw posting on another thread) it would be good to get your honest opinion.
sj355
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Guest
"He is bright (extremely so in maths), an extrovert with a very good sense of humor. At the same time he is shy with people he does not know and he is not competitive at all, precisely because I always say to him that no-one likes an insufferable know-all. At the same time being at the top of his class in Maths and English has made wonders for his self esteem and is a lot more confident that he was say 3 years ago. He is not the natural leader of the crowd, but he is definetely the unusual type that will never follow the herd unless he is utterly convinced he likes what they do and finds it smart and enjoyable. He does not like discipline (who does?) , but also finds it very tiring when there is too much noise in his class and wishes that the teacher would ask everyone to just shut up."
Actually sj355 I think from what you have just said that you know your child very well (and he sounds like a nice boy). Yes children do change - as do adults - hence my statement
" (I'm currently trying to fathom out if my second child falls into that category)."
All we can do as parents is try to understand our child, try to understand the ethos of the school we are looking at and see if the two can be married up, hoping we make a sound decision. Having been here once and made what I hoped was the best decision, I could then only sit back and keep my fingers crossed. However, I was 99% sure QE was the wrong school that time round. I'm sure I will go through exactly the same agonising this time but will again make the final decision of which school goes in which order on the selection form based upon what I know about my son.
Best wishes
Loulou
Actually sj355 I think from what you have just said that you know your child very well (and he sounds like a nice boy). Yes children do change - as do adults - hence my statement
" (I'm currently trying to fathom out if my second child falls into that category)."
All we can do as parents is try to understand our child, try to understand the ethos of the school we are looking at and see if the two can be married up, hoping we make a sound decision. Having been here once and made what I hoped was the best decision, I could then only sit back and keep my fingers crossed. However, I was 99% sure QE was the wrong school that time round. I'm sure I will go through exactly the same agonising this time but will again make the final decision of which school goes in which order on the selection form based upon what I know about my son.
Best wishes
Loulou
Dear Guest,
This is one of the few times in my life I am at a loss; it is such a headache to take a decision that will affect someone else's life. I will sent my son to the test next Friday because that is what he expects to do. However, I am now waiting the decision from an independent (and very liberal) school I have applied to. They may very well spoil him rotten to that school; fine by me as life is too short so it has to be sweet... If the decision is positive I will very seriously think of pulling out of the rat race and replace a "someone else' life" anxiety with a "financial" one!
Have a nice weekend.
INEX
This is one of the few times in my life I am at a loss; it is such a headache to take a decision that will affect someone else's life. I will sent my son to the test next Friday because that is what he expects to do. However, I am now waiting the decision from an independent (and very liberal) school I have applied to. They may very well spoil him rotten to that school; fine by me as life is too short so it has to be sweet... If the decision is positive I will very seriously think of pulling out of the rat race and replace a "someone else' life" anxiety with a "financial" one!
Have a nice weekend.
INEX
Anonymous wrote:Sj355 our son was also referred our son to the Gifted and Talented" register. What are you planning to do?
sj355
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Guest
What makes QE a tough place?
I'm aware of the very high numbers if students leaving at the end of year 11 and that the boys seem not to socialise outside school hours [perhaps because many travel long distances to school]. I am also very concerned about bullying not just from other boys but directly from staff - when I visited the school, the PE teacher mentioned that boys deemed to be unfit or overweight would need to attend compulsory extra fitness lessons at lunch times. The latter is arranged fairly quickly in year 7 and in my opinion, opens these boys to bullying from the boys who do not have to attend these classes.
I'm aware of the very high numbers if students leaving at the end of year 11 and that the boys seem not to socialise outside school hours [perhaps because many travel long distances to school]. I am also very concerned about bullying not just from other boys but directly from staff - when I visited the school, the PE teacher mentioned that boys deemed to be unfit or overweight would need to attend compulsory extra fitness lessons at lunch times. The latter is arranged fairly quickly in year 7 and in my opinion, opens these boys to bullying from the boys who do not have to attend these classes.
