Language provision in Secondary schools
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Guest
My son is in year 7 at grammar and is learning French. He's really not a natural and although is doing very well in other subjects, he struggles a little in French. Next year he gets to add either Spanish or German. He also does Latin which he seems to be doing very well in.
He is expected to keep up at least 1 language for GCSE. He really has no idea which language he should continue with yet. I guess we will see how he gets on next year.
Should I be helping him at home with his weakest subject, French, or just assume that he will be dropping it in year 10 and concentrate on the other subjects?
He is expected to keep up at least 1 language for GCSE. He really has no idea which language he should continue with yet. I guess we will see how he gets on next year.
Should I be helping him at home with his weakest subject, French, or just assume that he will be dropping it in year 10 and concentrate on the other subjects?
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jah
Do help him! It is a long time before he can drop it, and he could get quite a lot of grief in that time.
My daughter found the spellings hardest in French (she can't spell in English); so it's worth telling him he's just got to learn them and help by testing him on his vocab. Then with written work, I would cast my eye over it when she'd finished and point out which answers were wrong (not necessarily say in what way it was wrong).
Year 10 daughter has stuck with German and dropped French now. This is easier for her but more difficult for me! I did both to O'level, but my French is much better than my German (I had French-speaking Granny).
My daughter found the spellings hardest in French (she can't spell in English); so it's worth telling him he's just got to learn them and help by testing him on his vocab. Then with written work, I would cast my eye over it when she'd finished and point out which answers were wrong (not necessarily say in what way it was wrong).
Year 10 daughter has stuck with German and dropped French now. This is easier for her but more difficult for me! I did both to O'level, but my French is much better than my German (I had French-speaking Granny).
Unfortunately, the government's approach to, and regard for the teaching of modern languages has been fairly appalling. The current knee-jerk reaction of demanding that primary schools suddenly start teaching a foreign language is just the latest example of this.
Don't get me wrong - I think the earlier that children start learning a language the better. Many years ago I worked in a school abroad where there was a marked difference between between those who had started learning English at 3 years old and those who started later. So I'd recommend starting at reception.
However, there is also the problem of what language to teach. I'm not surprised that many children aren't turned on by French. Spanish is a much easier language to learn than either French or German - and as many children go on holiday to Spain (or the US where Spanish is the second language) it may be more relevant as well as more fun.
Also, I've been quite disappointed when visiting high schools (particularly grammars) to see how many of them still offer only French and German. However, this is hardly surprising. Most heads of Modern Languages in the past were French and German teachers and therefore maintained the tradition (and the schools results) by employing staff who taught only these languages. Offering a new language requires hiring new staff (putting some of your colleagues out of a job) and it's risky - what if the GCSE and A/level results in the first few years aren't as good?
But the latest government edict to schools suggesting that they start teaching Chinese shows how completely out of touch ministers are. Chinese is possibly the most difficult language in the world. Apart from the thousands of characters to learn, it's a tonal language so pronuciation is difficult unless you have a musical ear or have started studying at an early age.
By the way, I think there are probably plenty of prospective language teachers out there if primary schools can find the money to fund them. When I visited a school last year (a decent comp) a language teacher told me that when they advertised a temporary post they received 120 applications!
Resmum
Don't get me wrong - I think the earlier that children start learning a language the better. Many years ago I worked in a school abroad where there was a marked difference between between those who had started learning English at 3 years old and those who started later. So I'd recommend starting at reception.
However, there is also the problem of what language to teach. I'm not surprised that many children aren't turned on by French. Spanish is a much easier language to learn than either French or German - and as many children go on holiday to Spain (or the US where Spanish is the second language) it may be more relevant as well as more fun.
Also, I've been quite disappointed when visiting high schools (particularly grammars) to see how many of them still offer only French and German. However, this is hardly surprising. Most heads of Modern Languages in the past were French and German teachers and therefore maintained the tradition (and the schools results) by employing staff who taught only these languages. Offering a new language requires hiring new staff (putting some of your colleagues out of a job) and it's risky - what if the GCSE and A/level results in the first few years aren't as good?
But the latest government edict to schools suggesting that they start teaching Chinese shows how completely out of touch ministers are. Chinese is possibly the most difficult language in the world. Apart from the thousands of characters to learn, it's a tonal language so pronuciation is difficult unless you have a musical ear or have started studying at an early age.
By the way, I think there are probably plenty of prospective language teachers out there if primary schools can find the money to fund them. When I visited a school last year (a decent comp) a language teacher told me that when they advertised a temporary post they received 120 applications!
Resmum
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Guest
Thanks for your comments. I'm trying to learn a bit of French myself so that I can help my son. He's not turned on by French and he has just been given a taster lesson for German and Spanish. I did German O'Level so would be really pleased if he chooses German as I will be able to help him much better with that.
I had much more of a passion for German than French and hopefully he will soon discover how he feels. (He has told me he would like to learn Italian because he enjoyed the movie 'The Godfather')! I don't care where the passion comes from. I'm not sure it's possible to choose the best language to learn without knowing what career you intend to go into.
My daughter is 9 and has been learning Muzzy Spanish. Maybe my son should consider the Spanish then if it's going to be an easier language to learn.
I want one of them to learn German though! Maybe my daughter will be better at languages and she can learn 2! (is it the right side of the brain for language or left - I can't remember)
I had much more of a passion for German than French and hopefully he will soon discover how he feels. (He has told me he would like to learn Italian because he enjoyed the movie 'The Godfather')! I don't care where the passion comes from. I'm not sure it's possible to choose the best language to learn without knowing what career you intend to go into.
My daughter is 9 and has been learning Muzzy Spanish. Maybe my son should consider the Spanish then if it's going to be an easier language to learn.
I want one of them to learn German though! Maybe my daughter will be better at languages and she can learn 2! (is it the right side of the brain for language or left - I can't remember)
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Sally-Anne
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I think languages are supposed to be right brain, but as a fluent German speaker, I would say that certain languages - especially the Germanic ones - lend themselves to left-brain, as they are dominated by strict grammar rules to a much greater extent than the Romance languages. Much of German grammar can be learned by rote (I can still recite my prepositions like a parrot!)
The historic reason for the dominance of French and German is that France is our nearest neighbour, and in the post-war period, was the furthest many people were ever likely to travel on holiday. German was introduced as a means of bridging the massive cultural divide following two world wars. Although I am a great fan of German, having learned it to such a high level myself, I will admit that it should not necessarily receive the high level of attention that it does in the curriculum.
But Mandarin Chinese? What a joke. By the time our sad educational system has instilled the basics in a generation of children (99% of whom will never progress any further or have any use for the language), 1 billion Chinese will have mastered English and be laughing at our pitiful efforts to communicate.
Sally-Anne
The historic reason for the dominance of French and German is that France is our nearest neighbour, and in the post-war period, was the furthest many people were ever likely to travel on holiday. German was introduced as a means of bridging the massive cultural divide following two world wars. Although I am a great fan of German, having learned it to such a high level myself, I will admit that it should not necessarily receive the high level of attention that it does in the curriculum.
But Mandarin Chinese? What a joke. By the time our sad educational system has instilled the basics in a generation of children (99% of whom will never progress any further or have any use for the language), 1 billion Chinese will have mastered English and be laughing at our pitiful efforts to communicate.
Sally-Anne
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Guest
LOL the comments about Mandarin Chinese. I actually feel the same about any language. Other countries have a dig at us about the fact the so few English speak a second language. It's an easy decision for them of course - they just need to learn English. For every 1 Englishman who speaks French, there are probably 10 Frenchmen who can speak good English.
Interesting comments about German and left brainers. I'm very much a left brainer and preferred German myself.
Interesting comments about German and left brainers. I'm very much a left brainer and preferred German myself.
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Jed
Guest is absolutely right about the choice of language to study. In non English-speaking countries 95% of schools would choose English as the first foreign language and so can achieve some continuity through the school system.
In English-speaking countries, the choice is not as obvious. If you are an independent school with pupils ages 3-18, and you devote three hours a week from nursery level to learning, say, Chinese, then you can achieve meaningful levels of fluency. Otherwise, we're stuck with pupils having to start again at 11 with foreign languages, even if they have previously studied them in primary or prep.
Let's see what the Daring report recommends about the 'lost' years 14-16 which has resulted in such as disaterous drop in foreign language GCSE numbers.
Jed
In English-speaking countries, the choice is not as obvious. If you are an independent school with pupils ages 3-18, and you devote three hours a week from nursery level to learning, say, Chinese, then you can achieve meaningful levels of fluency. Otherwise, we're stuck with pupils having to start again at 11 with foreign languages, even if they have previously studied them in primary or prep.
Let's see what the Daring report recommends about the 'lost' years 14-16 which has resulted in such as disaterous drop in foreign language GCSE numbers.
Jed
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Sally-Anne
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- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
I agree very much with Jed, which is that the choice of "which language" is far more diffficult for us, especially in Britain, as we look to so many other countries and continents geographically and economically.
I would say that the mere harnessing of a skill in one langauge - any language - gives children the confidence to master other languages.
Language skills tend, like Maths, to be something that children categorise themselves as "able to do/rubbish at". If children are given the chance to learn ANY language, they will at least have the confidence to build on those skills in future.
I just hope it isn't Mandarin Chinese! I am a huge fan of Latin, as the root of not only English, but so many other European languages. But I guess I am just a throwback to another era. (Although JK Rowling hasn't done badly from her training in classics!)
Sally-Anne
I would say that the mere harnessing of a skill in one langauge - any language - gives children the confidence to master other languages.
Language skills tend, like Maths, to be something that children categorise themselves as "able to do/rubbish at". If children are given the chance to learn ANY language, they will at least have the confidence to build on those skills in future.
I just hope it isn't Mandarin Chinese! I am a huge fan of Latin, as the root of not only English, but so many other European languages. But I guess I am just a throwback to another era. (Although JK Rowling hasn't done badly from her training in classics!)
Sally-Anne
