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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Could anyone clarify what a good score for non verbal reasoning really reflects in a child. My daughter excels in this area, has good scores in verbal as well but was considered borderline in maths. Since being told this we have really worked on her maths and she is doing well but it seems that less store is set on the NVR scores, why? Surely this shows academic potential as it is a natural ability rather than something which can be taught/learned.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:50 pm 
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no expert I am afraid but always understood that it was tricky to teach NVR and you either had it or you didn't and it was less language dependant than VR or comprehension etc
maths however can be taught, my maths teacher reckoned she could teach ANYONE to do 'O' level maths as it did not take mathematical aptitude - OTH maybe she was just try to egg us into doing the A level :wink:


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 Post subject: NVR
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:46 pm 
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Thanks. As I thought, but would be really grateful if someone could give me any specifics about NVR and its reason for being used in tests or what it shows in a child.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:45 pm 
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Location: berkshire
There is a description of the NVR tests and what they are testing for on the NFER site..

http://www.nfer.ac.uk/nfer/index.cfm?20 ... F32480C310

Here are two extracts....

Quote:
In an educational context, these tests are typically used as an indication of a pupil’s ability to understand and assimilate novel information independently of language skills. Scores on these tests can indicate a pupil’s ability to learn new material in a wide range of school subjects based on their current levels of functioning


Quote:
Cattell (1963) however, defined NVR as a ‘fluid-general intelligence’, which involves the ability to reason with novel material, without the need to draw on learned knowledge. Cattell believed measures such as NVR tests could be considered ‘culture fair’ and thus provide a more appropriate measure of general intelligence, compared with verbal reasoning tests, for test takers not fluent in the language being used.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:39 pm
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Thanks that was exactly the information I was looking for. Great, much reassurance.


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 Post subject: Question
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Interesting to get our second set of results today as we got a breakdown of scores which we hadn't had for my son's chosen school. His VR/Maths were well above the pass level (130ish), NVR a few marks below at 112. Sure the other set would have been the same only more so as he had a total disaster in the NVR paper for that one.

Which gets me wondering.... he hasn't been heavily coached but he does go to a very high-achieving state primary and has been taught Maths and English well - is there any research as to how NVR scores map onto eventual achievement at secondary school, and whether children who 'fail' NVR are likely to struggle to cope with the demands placed on them at grammar school?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:03 pm 
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Location: berkshire
I think it just shows where a child's natural abilities lie.
My son was naturally dreadful at VR but excellent in Maths & NV.
3 years on (at Grammar school) he is in top sets for all his sciences & maths.... high grades for History & Geography.....ok grades for English but struggles with languages (dropped both German & Latin after Yr 8 ) continues with Spanish but it certainly doesn't happen easily.

That is why having a 'combined' score for a pass at an 11+ exam allows for this 'natural' ability.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:36 pm 
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Many years ago in psych. I was taught that NVR tests are non-cultural as well, unlike a lot of VR tests in which success seems to be dependent on your child being british/middle class/child of aspirational parents, etc..

I always thought the point of them was that they would allow kids who are bright despite perhaps a bad or different education to shine through.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:05 pm 
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That's the point - to me a profile of
VR - 130+
Maths - 125+
NVR - 112
would say to me 'child of slightly above average ability who has been heavily coached/pushed'.
Is there any indication that NVR performance correlates with specific subjects?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:17 am
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I decided to ask the first school in the end - they seemed to read far more into the fact that the maths and VR were good than the NVR score - they gave me the breakdown and he actually scored below 100 on the NVR for that one but the person I spoke to wasn't concerned and said based on his scores she thought he'd do very well.


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