is eleven plus fair to Sen

[ASDDAD]

[quote="Schmedz"]I am really pleased your sen children have found places at the right school for them. My daughter is clearly rubbish at VR and NVR and performed dismally on her recent tests to a super selective grammar. If that is the test needed to gain entry then she would probably not have enjoyed attending the school anyway.

Purely by nature of the condition (aspergers) you're daughter would struggle with VR and more so NVR but I wouldn't be as harsh as saying she is rubbish. My son is the same but as mentioned previously is it fair to test someone with Aspergers on VR and NVR when they have an inability to recognise common verbal and non verbal cues, probably not but we are willing to try because the school he wants to attend do that, it doesn't make it fair.
I think it isn't necessarily correct to say that the test to gain entry reflects how the actual school environment would be as VR and NVR will probably not even come into play in every day school life.
In mock tests that are more rounded (by this I mean, English, Maths, VR and NVR) he performed very well coming in the top 1% of the 1900 that took it but when sitting a purely VR/NVR test he came out borderline and we will have to wait until March to see if he is successful or not. In the meantime we just want encourage as much as we can because again by nature of the condition he now feels like a failure, which he is indeed not. Sometimes even as parents we forget how hard it is for them to deal with this condition, and I will admit to getting somewhat frustrated at times, but he can't help it.
I hope you find the right school for your daughter and wish you all the luck in the world.
I in no way mean to offend and hope none is taken, I just wanted to share my feelings with you as a fellow ASD parent

[Disney-Mum]

Hello

I don't necessarily agree, my son has Aspergers and ADHD, and he found both VR and NVR quite easy - because its all quite logical and systematic. Now, if it had been an english essay asking him to make up a story, that would have been a different matter

x

[ASDDAD]

I take your point and think we would have to agree to disagree, as we both know children with Aspergers are affected in different ways

That said it just goes to show the differences, my son will quite happily write an essay ( as long as it is on a subject he is interested in or has some knowledge of) but also concede that imagination can be a problem with Aspergers as can lack of basic VR and NVR skills regardless of how intelligent you may be. The main aspect that concerns us is his concentration span as the slightest distraction can throw him, as again you may or may not have encountered.

I think my point is that a more rounded test would be fairer, but we accept that if we want our son to go to the school he wants to go to, we need to jump through their particular hoops, as it were.

We only have 127 days left to wait till offer day ( not that I'm counting) so we will have to see the outcome and keep our fingers crossed that he did enough, either way we are very proud of him for trying

[Disney-Mum]

Oh yes, concentration is deffinately an issue! If there is a slight buzzing, or any noise we can't hear - he goes crazy! Reading is where my DS excels (and working out puzzles), but ask him to write about that book he just spent all his time with his nose in...not gonna happen, haha!

I don't think 11+ is fair to children with SEN, but personally, I'm not sure its fair anyway. The whole system seems unfair to children with SEN, and as parents, we are the ones who either fight fight fight, or fall to pieces

My eldest son has Autism and learning difficulties, so on a different scale to my youngest who took the 11+, and the fight for the correct school for him was just as hard (in fact, maybe harder because nobody can give 'opinions') We ended up choosing a specialist school, and it was the right choice - I shudder to think what could have happened if he'd gone to mainstream high!!

I hope all the kids going to high school this year find the correct school for them. Its such a difficult decision, and you're right, even kids with the same 'diagnosis' can be totally different in their abilities (which is probably why its so hard to get people to understand!)

Good luck all.

x

[ASDDAD]

I couldn't agree more, you do either have to fight or give up, there's no happy medium. Unfortunately the system is such that you get a diagnosis, and then they send you away to get on with it.

All the best with your sons application, I hope you get the school you want

[Schmedz]

It is true my daughter is particularly poor at abstract reasoning as shown when she had her WISC test. Given her poor abilities in this area she actually has improved quite well. In other areas she is years above her age and the psychologist who tested her when she was 9 had never come across such high scores in these areas in the 25 years she had been testing people. That said, the concentration, inability to sit still, difficulties in organising herself and emotional immaturity are clear problem areas which will need a supportive secondary school.

The selection procedure for the school to which she applied is clearly set out that the children have to achieve one of the top 450 scores for VR and NVR and only then are they eligible to sit for the English and Maths paper (which then becomes worth 70%) of the overall mark and the first stage test scores only contribute 30% of the score. I am confident her scores would be fantastic for the stage 2 tests but her poor performance on stage one means she will not get the chance to show it. No doubt as it is a super selective school they will easily fill their year 7 cohort with children who are skilled at both styles of testing. Given that there were around 1700 applicants and only 150 places this is bound to be the case.

As it is the only grammar school even vaguely close to our borough (there are no grammars in our borough at all) she has not applied to less competitive schools. A supportive home environment and a school close to home is essential to her happiness and well being and I am sure with her particular skills and feeling secure and not pressured where she goes to school her achievements in secondary school will equal many of the girls who get into the grammar anyway. Grammar schools don't hold the monopoly on A* grades or happy, successful children!

I am also encouraged by the fact that another friend's very bright son bombed out on his 11+ but has recently been offered an Open scholarship to Eton for the entire 6th Form. He has attended a local comprehensive since Year 7.

Testing for selective entry will always be contentious, whether your child has SEN Or not. No method of testing is perfect and no doubt within a decade or so VR and NVR will be out of favour and other methods introduced. Each type of test will ensure that children with certain types of intelligence will be successful...it is not possible to have a test which ensures otherwise!

[Joules]

Hi all,
So glad I found this thread ...
My DS has been diagnosed with ASD at the end of year 5, about 6 months ago.
He's just been through the 11+ tests and he has done reasonably well in our local test (Bexley).
The two grammar schools in our area both cater for SEN, so I am hoping he will get a place in one of them....

But as a safety net I would like to put him through another selection process for an independent school.
The problem is I don't how he will cope with 3 more months of stress and extra-work, he seems tired and very distressed at the moment, my darling baby

I am struggling to choose between the two good grammar schools that cater for SEN and the smaller top 100 independent school where they have only some experience with ASD, but not too much ....
Each of the grammar schools is about 3 times larger than the boys-only independent school, so I thought it would be better for him.

I feel we are such bad parents, but I just don't know what will be best for him ....

[Disney-Mum]

[quote="Joules"]
I am struggling to choose between the two good grammar schools that cater for SEN and the smaller top 100 independent school where they have only some experience with ASD, but not too much ....
quote]


Firstly, I am sure you are not bad parents, I think this is something we all feel. The fact that you are going through this and looking for the best for your son, proves you are NOT bad parents. I hope you have some support where you are, as posted earlier, we tend to get a diagnosis (if you're lucky) and then left to it.

Also, sometimes more experience with ASD isn't always best. The Grammar school my son has got into (as he has a statement he will automatically be offered a place at the school I put down) only has a small amount of experience with a child with his needs, but the actual SENCO has a lot of experience, and the care in general seems very good. I was nervous about putting him there as I was worried about the support/resources when I heard there is maybe 3 children in the whole school with ASD, but when we met her, it was clear she knew what she was talking about.

I am sure you will make the right choice. I really do feel for everyone going through this. I filled out my CAF yesterday, so the decision is now made.

I am sorry your DS is finding it difficult. I think I was one of the lucky ones, because the whole 11+ experience worked very well for my son. The testing criteria sounds awful where you are - it was just 2 exams here. One school had 2x VR, and the other 1x VR and 1x NVR.

I am sure you are giving him lots of support, and I am sure whatever you decide to do will be for the best. As someone said to me when I was wondering if I should do it at all - you know whats right for your child....

x

[Sidmum]

Joules,

Hi I just found this thread also, and are in the same position as you. My son also sat the Bexley 11 plus and passed and has ASD. I liked Beths and Bexley Grammar. I found Bexley Grammar smaller and was really impressed by the Head Masters speech. But for me I think Beths would suit my son more, due to the IEN suite at Beths which is for ASD (which you don't need a statement to access). Also the SEN lady who works in there has a son with ASD, so really understood all of my concerns. Please feel free to private message me if you have any questions, and congratulations on your son passing the 11 plus, you must be very proud.

[Joules]

Thank you very much DisneyMum and Sidmum for posting the encouraging messages.
He actually seems better this week, so maybe that was just a phase, fingers crossed!
We filled in the form and submitted yesterday, decision made.
We put BGS down as first option, purely on geographical reasons!
He would be able to walk there in about 25 min, when he's a bit older....
Beths went second. I loved them both for different reasons but we discussed and agreed the prioritisation....
But we do have to wait until March to find out. I would be more than happy with either really.
I found the SEN people at both schools incredibly nice and knowledgeable.

Next week we are going to visit the independent school as well, I am curious to see how he feels about it now, he absolutely loved it first time we went to see it!

Good luck to our dear boys