Are Grammar Schools SO good or Comps SO bad...

[mad?]

If this was the case then Super Selective GS would out perform normal GS - I see no evidence that this is actually the case

The vast majority of people on this site do not tutor excessively - many like my own son, see a tutor for 1 hour per week for about a year. This is reinforeced by doing a little additional homework. I cannot recall reading about anyone tutoring their child for hours over the summer holidays - if this is the case then they are really in the minority

Good point about the super selectives...perhaps it is because only the totally over tutored get in!

You are right about the the majority of peope on this site, but I can still recall reading many posts about 'only doing a couple of papers a week over the summer' etc etc - I think we all probably have a different definition of what constitutes over tutoring. Probably 'those that do more than me over tutor'

Finally, how do you do what you did with the quotes? I am forever wanting to answer specific parts of a post but haven't work out how to separate them out and answer individually? I suspect this means I am not even top 25%

[Tolstoy]

He was bought the practice book and some practice papers. He chose to do some of them in the summer months, and he chose to make it his goal to pass the exam

In this CanucksintheUK you are very lucky as many children at the age of 10, who are not used to having to do any extra work at home, will chose not to. I know my eldest wouldn't have done any practice given a choice. He preferred to play.

As his parent I have maturity on my side so I made sure he did practice. I had also been told by his head teacher that although he was perfectly capable of coping at the grammar school in order to compete with tutored children on the day of the test it would be wise to get him prepared.

The system is unfair however with that advice it would have been wrong of me not to try and give my son an equal chance.

[sallyj]

CanucksintheUK,you mention you would use the fact that your child wasn't tutored at an appeal if you have to go down that route.
Please be careful,most appeal panels will not be swayed by this at all.
Any parent could go to appeal claiming thier child was not on a level playing field because they were up against heavily tutored children,whilst they had only had the minimum of preparation. The sad fact is people can & do lie/play the system,so this argument carries little or no weight.
Please don't take this as a personal attack,it certainly isn't meant as such.
We went through three appeals,so we know something of how the system works !

[mattsurf]

Finally, how do you do what you did with the quotes? I am forever wanting to answer specific parts of a post but haven't work out how to separate them out and answer individually? I suspect this means I am not even top 25%

Insert into the text inside square brackets quote="mad?" (obviously use the name of the person you are quoting) before the section you want to quote at the end of the section inside square brackets type /quote

In this way you can break up the text that some one elso has posted with your own comments

My DS is also in the top group at school and is at level 5 on SATs, therefore he should be able to cope with GS... however, he is careless and is not inclined to work off his own back. In these circumstances his best chance of passing the 11+ is with some extra help

I do not consider 2 papers per week (max 2 hours) over the summer holidays to be excessive. He has 2 weeks for half term - one week will be work free - the second week we will do 1.5 to 2 hours per day on subject revision

Matt

[Sally Herts]

It's so interesting how we define how much work our children have done. One person's "not much work" is another's "heavily tutored"

I was speaking to a mum the other evening, who said that her son hadn't done much work at all ...... on closer questioning, I discovered he's had a tutor for a year, the tutor set him homework, and he was doing at least one past paper every week. Now I considered that to be quite a lot of work, particularly as her son is very bright.

The other point is that the more we hear how much work someone else is doing, the more we feel obliged to keep up. After talking to that mum, I rushed home and pulled out a paper for my son to do before school! Then I realised that paranoia had set in.

[Uncle Bob]

This does not make then 'inferior', a term which I have to say I find rather pejorative.

OK, maybe it was a bit harsh, however, it was directed at the previous post, which suggested that tutored kids would be at the bottom of the class and really not care less about it

OK, I saw the first response and thought 'what the ...'. and decided to ignore it.

I'm not here to create a storm in a tea cup but I didn't realise how poor the level of comprehension is in here, so let me explain it for you ...

I think that your arguements regarding tutoring are completely misplaced. A child who attends a private school will have been educated to a higher level than a child who attends a state school. A child who has an excellent teacher at school will be at an advantage over a child who has a poor teacher

We're talking about tutoring specifically for the 11+ exam not full time preping at an indie which is in a completely different league.

Here's the original quote for reference purposes.

It is immediately apparent to a teacher at a grammar school which students were tutored in order to get past the test.

[mad?]

Finally, how do you do what you did with the quotes? I am forever wanting to answer specific parts of a post but haven't work out how to separate them out and answer individually? I suspect this means I am not even top 25%

Insert into the text inside square brackets quote="mad?" (obviously use the name of the person you are quoting) before the section you want to quote at the end of the section inside square brackets type /quote

In this way you can break up the text that some one elso has posted with your own comments

Thanks Mattsurf

I do not consider 2 papers per week (max 2 hours) over the summer holidays to be excessive. He has 2 weeks for half term - one week will be work free - the second week we will do 1.5 to 2 hours per day on subject revision

Matt

I guess that is partly my point (and if I could quote SallyHerts on here aswell I would but combining two people's quotes is beyond me!), that different people have different views of what excessive tutoring is.

[mad?]

It's so interesting how we define how much work our children have done. One person's "not much work" is another's "heavily tutored"

I was speaking to a mum the other evening, who said that her son hadn't done much work at all ...... on closer questioning, I discovered he's had a tutor for a year, the tutor set him homework, and he was doing at least one past paper every week. Now I considered that to be quite a lot of work, particularly as her son is very bright.

Me too!

The other point is that the more we hear how much work someone else is doing, the more we feel obliged to keep up. After talking to that mum, I rushed home and pulled out a paper for my son to do before school! Then I realised that paranoia had set in.

yes, been there!

[mattsurf]

Many Indi's advertise their success rates at the 11+. One school that I used to pass every day even had a large board outside the school quoting 70% of pupils who take the 11+ get into GS

My experience of tutors is not that that they coach specifically for the exam until the last couple of months - most of the time is spent identifying weaknesses in Maths and English and ensuring that the children have good basic skills

Many of us use tutors so that our children are on a more level playing field with the children who have had an independent education

[Bexley Mum 2]

The thing I find most annoying is when parents say that their child has passed and they "didn't even have a tutor", "just" did some practice at home

Having a tutor may well mean that a child has been drilled intensively for 2 or 3 years before a test. Or it may mean that parents are too busy with work or other children to do any practice at home and having a tutor is a substitute for parental input. It may also mean that a child doesn't work well with their parents. I'm sure there are many children for whom having a tutor is a lot less intensive than being coached by their parents. Judging by some of the posts on this forum, some parents are putting their children through some frighteningly intensive preparation. Yet still, having a tutor seems to be considered by many to be the most extreme form of preparation for the selection tests, while DIY is seen by some as hardly relevant.