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 Post subject: level of abilities
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:13 pm 
What level should a child represent in the middle of Year 5 in order to have a chance to be admitted into Grammar. Mine was assessed by his new tutor as being now 4a in maths and some areas lowest 5 , but only 3a in English (therefore his VR is not great) Any experiences or opinions?
What is the average level for year 5?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:12 am 
We were told by my child's primary that they were looking for level 4a at the end of year 5 which my child was at in all subjects other than English . He was 4b but managed to raise his game in this subject over the summer so that he gained a place at grammar.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:11 pm 
Thanks. Just started tutoring, so hopefuly my son will manage to improve his English over the period of 1 year . Seems to be doing well in maths.
I have read on the gov. website that expected average at KS2 (end of Year 6 SATS) is level 4. Obviously that would not qualify for Grammar.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm
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Location: berkshire
At the open evenings (when looking round the grammars) we were told that 3 x level 5's were a good start for grammar. There were quite a few children in the current Year 7 that had achieved 2 x 5's and 1x high 4 - usually the 4 was either English or Maths as there was a marked difference in some childrens maths/english abilities. (i.e Maths 5a, Science 5b, English 4a)

This was comparable with my sons results (just scraped a 5 in English) but he has settled well in his grammar school and is coping with the standard of work expected in all subjects.

His reported levels at the end of Year 5 were Maths 5b, English 4c, Science 5c


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 445
Location: LONDON
Chad

Your sons results at the end of year 5 look quite good to me. Was this pre or post you starting to tutor? If you tutored for Maths and English (I'm afraid without looking at previous posts I can't remember whether you are just a VR person) do you think that artificially raises those marks?
I'm only asking because I'm trying to bring my child up a good level in maths and english (we do 4 papers around here) and I don't know how meaningful those grades will be when we reach the end of year 5. ie. Is he really bright/ Is the school doing a fantastic job/ Has solely the tutoring given him those grades.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm
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Location: berkshire
I didnt have my son tutored........... well!!!! I 'home tutored' from September thru to November. The results were actually based on back SATS papers that were done around end of September, so yes there was extra work being done. I think the extra work on the 11+ syllabus raised his Maths level up from a 4a to a 5b (children cannot get questions right if they haven't been taught it) but this was his 'strongest' subject anyway. He also had a channge of Maths Teacher that recognised he could do more and so didn't let him 'coast' so much.

He took Maths, VR and NVR so the other 2 papers didn't really tie in with the SATS tests.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:05 am
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Location: LONDON
Thank you Chad. I remember reading in the papers a couple of years back about SATS results and how many of the schools in middle class areas of London did better than schools in socially deprived areas. This was primarily because of tutoring/parental support aka DIY. ie. if little Johnny looked like he was only going to achieve level 4's Mr and Mrs middle class had the ability or resources to ensure he achieved level 5's. The papers suggestion was to take SATS league tables with a pinch of salt. I suppose this is why universities value an A grade from an 'underachieving' school more than an A grade from a top of the tables school.
I guess from an exam point of view I need to look towards maximum SATS results but I wonder sometimes if my child gets good results because he truly is very bright (yes I would like to think so) or because of the support I give at home.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:10 pm
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Location: Lincolnshire
Hi am,

Achievement in SATS does not equate very well with some 11 plus testing. Whereas those scoring very highly in all areas in year 5 might be expected to do well at 11 plus it is not always possible to predict how a child will do with regard to Verbal Reasoning and Non Verbal Reasoning from SATs type tests. 11 plus tests in Maths and English may correlate more closely, though if you are doing these you may have to go beyond the Year 6 curriculum to pass.

My son had a 4b in English Reading, only a 3a in Writing, and 4a in Maths at the end of Year 5 but scored quite highly in 11 plus (no need to string a sentence together for VR or Non VR!)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 1149
Location: Finchley - Barnet
Ditto dear Loulou,

However here is a comment from someone being on the receiving side as an academic at a London University who was also given the responsibility of undergraduate admisions some years back (I will back to this shortly). There is currently some resentment at the presurre exerted by the government on the universities not simply to accept between two equally qualified applicants the one coming from the more deprived area, but rather to also accept a more lowly qualified applicant coming from a deprived area school at the expense of another more highly qualified applicant from a more privildge area or from an independent school. This is the social enginnering that this government has invented instead of trying to fix the quality of state schools in such areas! It just proceeds to undermine the quality of the universties as well!

The barrel of laughs was when I was the admissions tutor way-back during the mid-nineties. I hade no idea about the schools I would see in the students' UCAS forms. I did not know whether they were independent or state or what. Neither did I know anything about the areas and whether they were deprived or not. Hence the only thing I would look at was the GCSE grades, predicted A level grades and reference letter. These applicants literally did receive a totally blind admission process during that period (it made no difference of course as the social engineering policy did not exist then!)

The most hysterical incident of that period was when a disgruntled student phoned me and asked whether the reason why I did not accpet him was that he was black. He was shell shocked when I informed him that I had no idea than he was black as I could neither tell from his name nor for that matter form his voice on the phone!! These were my early days in this country and still to this day I can not distinguish accents, except if someone is Scottish! I then added that if he had had the right qualifications(which he did not) I would have taken him even if he was from Mars and his skin was polca dot. I meant it and would still say the same today.

Cheers,

INEX


loulou wrote:
Thank you Chad. I remember reading in the papers a couple of years back about SATS results and how many of the schools in middle class areas of London did better than schools in socially deprived areas. This was primarily because of tutoring/parental support aka DIY. ie. if little Johnny looked like he was only going to achieve level 4's Mr and Mrs middle class had the ability or resources to ensure he achieved level 5's. The papers suggestion was to take SATS league tables with a pinch of salt. I suppose this is why universities value an A grade from an 'underachieving' school more than an A grade from a top of the tables school.
I guess from an exam point of view I need to look towards maximum SATS results but I wonder sometimes if my child gets good results because he truly is very bright (yes I would like to think so) or because of the support I give at home.

_________________
sj355


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:05 pm 
My son at end of year 5 gain leval 2a in English and 3a in Maths. I was told by the school he will not his pass 11+. We recived the 11+ result on Thurday, and he scored 130. He did not go to a tutor. I trained him myself. I think anything is possible if your child is prepared to work.


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