Pours on petrol, lights match, and steps back ....

[Chelmsford mum]

However, there are alot of good comps in non-grammar areas with supportive parents etc. so maybe the results are not that surprising.

I totally agree that there are many good comps - however given how few turn out the percentage of A/A* that the other two sectors do, I still believe it has to be said that, overall, it is harder to achieve top grades in the average comp and therefore their students that do this, may have that extra bit of spark/fight in them.

(Average comp maybe being one that is one turning out the average percent 5 GCSEs inclu Eng& Maths.This is at about 53 % I think - last time I looked)

edit : where are you WFG ? Surely you are going to come and argue that actually it is indep students that have the extra spark because they have to go rowing/ fence/ horse riding etc whilst studying......you must be busy

[Choccygirl]

I agree with all your sentiments CM - and that is from a privately / grammar educated mum with kids in the state / grammar sectors. Well said.

CG

[Waiting_For_Godot]

CM, I was pouring petrol on, lighting a match and stepping back....

TBH I don't like generalisations (unless they come from me ) and I often feel their is an implication that the "true" bright are not at inde's or gs. As it is, some of the most gifted children in the UK are on major scholarships to inde's and they deserve their place at top uni's and will achieve as much as children with identical abilities that attend comps. Less bright inde kids who have got good A'level results will not do as well but at the very top inde's there is no spoon-feeding. Schools such as Eton and Westminster are high octane, incredibly demanding places that require boys to have physical and mental stamina, ambition and drive and they take that with them to university.

[Looking for help]

Less bright inde kids who have got good A'level results will not do as well but at the very top inde's there is no spoon-feeding. Schools such as Eton and Westminster are high octane, incredibly demanding places that require boys to have physical and mental stamina, ambition and drive and they take that with them to university.

And you know this because?

There IS spoonfeeding, it is seen all the time, they can't have their league table positions defined by rebellious teenagers refusing to put the effort in. Rocket science it ain't.
These children who do well despite their schooling deserve every congratulation.

Can I say I'm a wee bit worried at your sexist comments......girls can do it all too, you know. I should know, I have 2

[Waiting_For_Godot]

At what point have I been sexist? You are making assumptions. How can I describe a girls school when I do not have a daughter?

And yes, I do know how the likes of Eton and Westminster work, thanks to the many parents I know and the amount of times I have spent and will spend in these schools. If "children" at these schools were spoonfed then they could not survive for long in the high-powered prestigious jobs that many of them end up getting. They would be found out in the end.

Of course it depends on one's definition of spoon-feeding because I think state school pupils are spoon-fed: taught subjects in bite-sized chunk, spoon-fed facts, not encouraged to have independent thought, not given responsibility for their own learning which is why they can resit and resit coursework until they get it right. And, as for massaging figures - was a GNVQ in Hairdressing considered to be equivalent to 5 A*-C GCSE's under the last government? Top inde's are not interested in league tables!

I don't know why I get involved in these debates. I know the calibre of children and education offered in the top inde and gs schools. I'm not sure why I am defending the best of the best.

[Looking for help]

Sorry Tipsy - you know we are on opposite sides, and you draw me in. I shall retire now.

[Waiting_For_Godot]

I was being a bit of a minx last night. Helps me not focus on the stress that is DS2!

[Rob Clark]

I’ve resisted until now but can’t fight it any longer. DS goes to a high-achieving, very well established boys GS which looks and feels very much like the well-known public school I attended (many, many years ago). DD goes to the local upper school. There is not a shadow of doubt in my mind that grades she obtains are worth ‘more’ than those he does. None. There are loads of factors behind this, including (but not limited to): the wider ability range at her school, the presence of some disruptive elements and a less academic atmosphere. Speaking personally, I would have no issue at all with an RG uni asking him for three As and her for three Bs.

As regards Eton, I have 2 nephews there and would agree that they aren’t ‘spoonfed’; in fact, they have to be fairly self-reliant because the teachers don’t really chase them up about their work – if they don’t want to do it, that’s their lookout, certainly in the Sixth Form. And incidentally, my school took much the same approach in the early 80s. However, while there are some extremely clever boys at the top public schools, they certainly don’t all fall into that category – one of my nephews is the brightest teenager I’ve ever met and will sail into Oxbridge; the other is no brighter than either of my children. I guess that just shows how dangerous generalisations are

[cairo]

So what this piece of research shows is that on average a GS or indy gets the most possible out of their students whilst they are at school, whereas a comprehensive does not always. It is therefore right and proper that unis take the sort of school into account when deciding places.

This is nothing new. Way back in the 80s my cousin was offered an Oxbridge place with 3 Bs, due to his truly appalling home environment and an inner-city comprehensive which restricted children to a maximum of 5 O-levels. (I kid you not.) Unfortunately, he turned it down, feeling too poor, too alien etc, but that's another story.

So should those of us with children at GSs/indies be worried that unis won't be impressed by their grades? I think not. Surely it's better to have good grades than not; and the good thing is, they are with you for life. I have always been surprised how many people comment on my O and A level results at job interviews, even decades afterwards. (In my case, many decades afterwards!)

[mike1880]

It is therefore right and proper that unis take the sort of school into account when deciding places.

R4 interviewed a couple of likely beneficiaries (very clever girls from underperforming areas) of government initiatives to encourage universities to do this and they were unanimous that actually, the right and proper thing for the government to do was to fix the problems in schools that led to such underperformance, not try to lower the final hurdle in order to cover up the failures of the system.

Mike