The never ending circle

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scary mum
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:45 pm

Re: The never ending circle

Post by scary mum »

At my 16 year old sons' recent sixth form open evening the overriding message from the teachers to the boys was to choose subjects that they enjoy and are good at
This was emphasised at DD's recent 6th form open evening too. They emphasised that it is quite a big jump from GCSE and there is no point making yourself miserable with a subject you don't like.
scary mum
DenDe
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: The never ending circle

Post by DenDe »

This is a really interesting topic. Thank you for raising it. I have had similar thoughts myself about is it all worth the stress of exams followed by the stress of work etc etc but I think for me the overriding reason for putting my DC through the 11+ was that I wanted them to have a happy secondary school experience and I felt that to be educated with others who were bright and enjoyed learning would be a more pleasant experience for them than to be in a school where it wasn't cool to be bright. As it turns out, they are in Year 7 at their respective grammars and are both absolutely thriving.

Said grammars both offer excellent extra curricular opportunities and I really feel my DC will have the chance to develop as rounded individuals. They may both have stressful, high powered jobs as a result of their education or they may not but I have a strong feeling they will look back on their school days as having been fun. I hope so!

I had a grammar school education myself, went on to university and got a good job. I now work part time with plenty of opportunity to have coffee with friends, watch rugby matches and attend nativities/sports days etc. I feel my education allowed me this.
Pushy Dad
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:12 pm

Re: The never ending circle

Post by Pushy Dad »

We started 11+ prep work during the Year 5 Easter break and it was stressful at the start. The state primary school they went to was great for the nurturing stuff but academically my kids were barely challenged. So they were hardly prepared for the studying. Starting off they were scoring about 65% in test papers and as the exam date approached they were scoring 87% to 93% depending on the position of the moon over Uranus :-) We were told that the kids were at a comfortable level so the stress then wasn't perhaps as great as a parent whose child was borderline.

The stress returned in the first few weeks of Year 7. Suddenly they had daily homework. At the new parents induction evening we were told it should only take about a hour a night and if your child was taking considerably longer than that he/she was doing something wrong. Well, mine were taking about 3 hours. In the mornings they had to be dragged out of bed because they were so tired from the previous late night and getting ready to leave the house on time was like a Special Forces Op - move it! move it! Go, go go!

After about three weeks it settled down. Adults and children have got into a routine which gives us study time and quality time plus time to spare.

End of Year 7 exams are looming and no doubt the pressure will return as they start to prep for it. Then there is the stress of GCSE, A levels, Uni, getting a job etc to come.

With us the stress only lasted a short period each time and there was always light at the tunnel. The twins have always switched up a few gears and adapted. On the other hand, we know of a parent who puts her teenage DD through 3 hours of music practice. The DD is definitely better than my 30min a day (if I am lucky) son but not by much. I'm not blowing my son's trumpet (pun not intended) but if my kid praticed for 3 hours a hour I would expect him to be a lot more ahead and if he isn't then I would take that as A Sign and back up with the stress and pressure bit.

Only you know the degree of stress to which you and DC can take or our prepared to take but I think that the rewards at the end of the tunnel will be worth it and I'm not talking about a big house and a fast car. Armed with a good degree from a good university my kids can choose their careers as opposed to the career choosing them. I mean, a friend's teenage daughter really wants to be a Vet but at the age of 16 she knows that she hasn't got the grades to pursue that career. It is a horrible position to be at when your life is just starting.
Pushy Dad
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Re: The never ending circle

Post by Pushy Dad »

alittletoomuch wrote: I suppose the point that I am trying to put up for discussion is whether the whole qualification, do well, get a great job with a big employer in order to afford the gizmos that the advertising moguls decide that you need lifestyle is really the way to a happy life
The other day I saw a young guy with a Burberry waist coat on. I half expected him to have a mini-me dog with him. Note to the guy - the Burberry pattern looks great as coat lining but on a waist coat it makes you look like some Beverly Hills poodle.

There are obviously some who want the latest handbag or the latest iPhone (or Burberry waistcoat) because of the ad men but on the whole we want iPads, big screen tvs because they are great gizmos. I'm self employed now but when I was with a 'big employer' I regularly got sent out business class to the Far East and USA, armed with a generous expense allowance. Then there were the monthly company sponsored drinkathons. Sorry, I meant company socials that allowed us to meet and develop relationships with others in the corporate empire :wink:

My point? We are not all overstressed individuals doing jobs we hate just so that we can attain the lifestyle that the ad men are selling us. :D
Scoopy19
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:04 am

Re: The never ending circle

Post by Scoopy19 »

I think Fran17 makes some very good points.

Making a decision about going down the 11+ route is not so black and white.

Ultimately isn't it about knowing your child. Knowing whether they may thrive in an grammar school environment or alternatively, thrive in a comprehensive school environment. Knowing what plays to their strengths, what they would enjoy and where they might be happiest.

I stressed about the exams a bit but my DD1 didn't at all. She had a little wobble before the first one (fear of the unknown and all that) but the rest of them she took in her stride and enjoyed the experience.

In her case, I would have been doing DD1 a disservice by not giving her the opportuntity to go down the 11+ route and she took that opportunity and relished it.

DD2 is 2 years younger and bright but a very different child. When the time comes she may not want to go down the 11+ route or it may not be the right option for her but when the time comes, we will look at alternatives - horses for courses.

I have many examples in my family and amongst old school friends, as I'm sure many people have, who were pushed to the limits by their parents academically and ultimately underachieved and, in many cases, dropped out of the normal job treadmill to go and live an alternative lifestyle.

Equally when my DD's come to the age of 18, although DH and I both went to Uni we will not be pushing Uni if it isn't appropriate for them. If anything, I will be pushing them to train to be plumbers, electricians and carpenters. Good tradesmen are hard to find!

Nothing we do at this age can guarantee happiness and certainly gaining an 11+ education is no guarantee.
Daogroupie
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Location: Herts

Re: The never ending circle

Post by Daogroupie »

Over the past ten yeas I have spent a lot of time in the primary school playground listening to other parents who are all considerably younger than me. (That was because I was busy working in the US when my cohort were having children.) I did not ever hear anyone say I wish I had not worked so hard at school or I wish my parents had not sent me to such a high achieving school. But I did hear lots and lots of parents say that they wish their parents had made better long term decisions and plans for them. "I wish my parents had encouraged me and pushed me to do better. " Last year I was in an evening class with lots of young people who failed at school and I heard the same thing from them. "I went to the local school with my friends but I wish my parents had insisted that I had gone somewhere better." Give your dc's all the qualifications you can. Nobody can take them away, but if you don't get them, some doors will be permanently closed to them. A parent I know let her ds not bother too much with the GCSe's he was not taking onto sixth form. I urged her to make him retake but she laughed at me. She is not laughing now. HIs Maths would be good enough for Oxbridge but he can't apply because of his low GCSE grades. Does he blame her? Of course he does. She was the parent. If you get the qualifications to get a great job, you can always give up that great job and do something else, but if you don't get the qualifications you wont even be rejected for that great job, you will simply never hear anything because you won't even be shortlisted. There are thousands and thousand of parents in Africa and Eastern Europe who would give anything to be able to give their children the opportunities that we can. You don't have to be materialistic to want to achieve academically. Many people choose to work in education who could easily earn a lot more money elsewhere. Yes I also see many parents who don't seem to have much time for their children but there are also many who manage to find a balance. I spend a lot of time on this forum because I feel myself to be among like minded people who want the same things for their dc's as I do. What does your dc want? DG
mad?
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Location: london

Re: The never ending circle

Post by mad? »

Daogroupie wrote:. What does your dc want? DG
I think that is the key, except at that age we don't always know! I worked my .... off to make sure I was one of the six (yes, six) from our 6th form of 200 that got to university and 'got out', straight As and off to uni. This was a different era of course, I suspect from what you say we may not be years apart!
However, if I had been in your playground DG you might have heard me say (well perhaps not as it has only just occurred to me :oops: and also I would not have been in the playground because I would have been at work :evil: ) that I wish I had just not bothered. Don't get me wrong, I loved uni and I met OH there so it isn't all bad (I think :D ) and I LOVED learning for learning's sake (still do). However... I recently attended a school reunion and met many former class mates who will be retiring in their 50s. Whilst I was at university they bought flats and property prices trebled. Whilst I graduated into a recession and worked in a restaurant for a year they progressed up the ladder on their A level leaver schemes, or set up building firms after their apprenticeships. I got a graduate job in the end and whilst I worked all the hours imaginable and traveled with work to places I had always dreamed of (but now, thankfully do not!) they settled down, started families etc. Eventually I managed to get on the property ladder but frankly had somewhat missed the boat by then. I now work all the hours imaginable again to try to give my children the opportunities I feel I did not have (we are not in an 11+ area). My pension has has crashed and I cannot imagine being able to retire, ever, let alone before my 70s. It is not about money, my former classmates (well those that turned up!)were materially significantly better off than I will ever be because of the timing of their entry into the work place, c'est la vie. It is about the quality of life they have had over the past 30 years, happy in their own worlds, not rocking the boat and doing just fine and dandy, not knowing what an apostrophe is, let alone where to put it. I doubt they even shout at the radio when people say less when they mean fewer :oops: ...oh how ignorance is bliss.
Did it make me who I am? Well yes and I don't think I would have done as well as my classmates if I had taken what was at the time their more conventional approach. I would have been bored rigid. Do I wish my parents would have stopped me going to uni? Well maybe, but I would not have let them. Would it have been better for me if I had been the kind of person who was happy with their lot (then as well as now!)? Of course it would.
My parents did not push me I did that for myself. I am aware that it is easy to regret choices that you have had the luxury to make, but for me I think I might be that lone person in the playground saying if you have a dream, follow it, that life is a journey that does not have a destination so make sure the journey is fulfilling and fun and that many, many, many a time I wish I had just got off the hamster wheel and looked at the view.
Last edited by mad? on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mad?
heartmum
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Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: The never ending circle

Post by heartmum »

Great topic ... and one that has us all wondering the what ifs :?:

Out for dinner with close friends we were discussing how our decisions affect our childrens' lives ... how it would be amazing if we could see a parallel universe, one where we did not go down the grammar route and instead sent our DC to the nearest comp, or in our friends case sent their child to the local school rather than the independent they attend. How would their lives pan out? Would they still make the same decisions in life, who would their friends be, would they be happier, who would they become?

Sadly we don't have the ability to see how our choices affect the future, so we make decisions and hope they are the right ones.

It is said that "It is in your moments of decision that your destiny is shaped" ... only time will tell :!: :shock:
Heartmum x x x
Stroller
Posts: 1546
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 9:39 am

Re: The never ending circle

Post by Stroller »

mad? wrote:
Daogroupie wrote:. What does your dc want? DG
I think that is the key, except at that age we don't always know! I worked my .... off to make sure I was one of the six (yes, six) from our 6th form of 200 that got to university and 'got out', straight As and off to uni. This was a different era of course, I suspect from what you say we may not be years apart!
However, if I had been in your playground DG you might have heard me say (well perhaps not as it has only just occurred to me :oops: and also I would not have been in the playground because I would have been at work :evil: ) that I wish I had just not bothered. Don't get me wrong, I loved uni and I met OH there so it isn't all bad (I think :D ) and I LOVED learning for learning's sake (still do).

It is about the quality of life [others] have had over the past 30 years, happy in their own worlds, not rocking the boat and doing just fine and dandy, not knowing what an apostrophe is, let alone where to put it.

Did it make me who I am? Well yes

Would it have been better for me if I had been the kind of person who was happy with their lot (then as well as now!)? Of course it would.

My parents did not push me I did that for myself. I am aware that it is easy to regret choices that you have had the luxury to make, but for me I think I might be that lone person in the playground saying if you have a dream, follow it, that life is a journey that does not have a destination so make sure the journey is fulfilling and fun and that many, many, many a time I wish I had just got off the hamster wheel and looked at the view.
This thread resonates with me in many ways, as does this post in particular. I have always worked hard, played the cards I was dealt as best I could and rolled with the punches. Is that what I want for DD? Honestly, I wish her an easier life: resilience is laudable; martyrdom isn't.

The selective and segregated education system we're currently grappling against is just one symptom of a massively unequal society with perpetual, relentless competition. Intrinsic merit aside, education is no longer a sufficient or reliable buffer. DD saw a 10 year old wet h/self before one of this year's exams. It's very hard to contend that the end will justify the means, for that child at least.
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onebigdilemma
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: The never ending circle

Post by onebigdilemma »

The preparation for grammar is as stressful as you make it. We started 6 months before the test, no more than a couple of hours total a week.....weekends are for fun!! We did short revision that was hopefully more fun than hard slog. This resulted in one son getting enough points that he should be offered a place and one that didn't hit the mark.

I do think the one who made it is bright enough to cope and if I had pushed my other son harder to obtain a grammar place I do think he would have struggled and found it a hard slog.

In the end everyone does what they think is best, and tries to make the best decisions for their child.

Unfortunately the job situation is not as it was and qualifications do count. I hope that my choices enable my boys to have greater choices as they get older.....but only time will tell!!
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