Regional variation in exam level and academic standard ?
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Dear all
Doesn't it always come back to the same conclusion, no one knows the true raw sore needed to pass,we can only guesstimate based on a few facts and years of teacher/heads experience. The Bucks VERY ROUGH GUIDELINE is 86% and the Wirall [according to Mike] is slightly less.
We can go round and round on this one.
Patricia
Doesn't it always come back to the same conclusion, no one knows the true raw sore needed to pass,we can only guesstimate based on a few facts and years of teacher/heads experience. The Bucks VERY ROUGH GUIDELINE is 86% and the Wirall [according to Mike] is slightly less.
We can go round and round on this one.
Patricia
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KenR
Oct 2005 intake - Standardised vs Raw Scores
You might be interested to know that I have formally applied to Birmingham LEA, under the Freedom of Information Act, for the Standardised Scores, Age profiles and pass marks for local Foundation Grammar School 11+ exams. This was for the Sept 2005 entry results.
According to the act procedures they have to formally reply to me within 20 days and supply the information or else state a reason why they are exempt from doing so under the act. I personally don't believe they can be exempt as the government produces similar figures for Key Stage 2 on the QCA web site.
Will let you know the outcome.
According to the act procedures they have to formally reply to me within 20 days and supply the information or else state a reason why they are exempt from doing so under the act. I personally don't believe they can be exempt as the government produces similar figures for Key Stage 2 on the QCA web site.
Will let you know the outcome.
Dear KenR
Good luck, we all need to know
Something interesting...
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/documents/ad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ng_nov.doc
Look at No 3 matters arising.11 plus test results. BBC had been provided with information relating to the 2005 11 plus transfer results requested under the FOI act. [ assume this is Bucks results ]
Also No 8 test dates for 2006 [ bucks]
No 11 AOB tutors/coaching
Patricia
Good luck, we all need to know
Something interesting...
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/documents/ad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ng_nov.doc
Look at No 3 matters arising.11 plus test results. BBC had been provided with information relating to the 2005 11 plus transfer results requested under the FOI act. [ assume this is Bucks results ]
Also No 8 test dates for 2006 [ bucks]
No 11 AOB tutors/coaching
Patricia
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Romeo
Agatha Christie
KenR & Patricia are regular Inspector Hercule Poirot's, though I am willing to bet Patricia does not have a moustache!
KenR, my wife is a lawyer and your research is correct - the authorities cannot deny access to you, indeed anyone, under the Freedom of Information Act, nor can they fob you off with a flimsy excuse or non-cooperation.
You have got them by the short and curly (.... er ... I mean the moustaches!)
PS I have to say that I have particularly enjoyed reading this thread, some really intelligent input and the points have been set out so that us parents can follow the issues - well done and thank you all.
KenR, my wife is a lawyer and your research is correct - the authorities cannot deny access to you, indeed anyone, under the Freedom of Information Act, nor can they fob you off with a flimsy excuse or non-cooperation.
You have got them by the short and curly (.... er ... I mean the moustaches!)
PS I have to say that I have particularly enjoyed reading this thread, some really intelligent input and the points have been set out so that us parents can follow the issues - well done and thank you all.
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Mike Edwards
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KenR
FOI Act - 11+ Results - Update
Quick update on my request to B/Ham LEA for the 11+ Standardised Scores, Age profiles and Pass Marks.
I have received a letter from the B/Ham LEA in which they state that they do not keep a record of this information as these particular 11+ exams are administered by the King Edward VI Grammar School Foundation. This is a Charitable Trust which runs the 6 King Edward Foundation Grammar Schools in Birmingham.
So I will need to redirect my request for the information to the Foundation. What I'm not sure about is whether Charitable Trusts have the same obligations under the FOI as Government departments; maybe Romeo's wife can advise?? Not doubt I will soon find out.
I think what is apparent, is that the information would have been provided by the LEA under the FOI if they held it. So I think this is good news for parents in LEAs where they administer the 11+ tests and results within themselves. (B/Ham LEA do this for a small group of other Grammar Schools within the authority but not for the KE Grammars)
Will keep you updated on progress via this forum.
I have received a letter from the B/Ham LEA in which they state that they do not keep a record of this information as these particular 11+ exams are administered by the King Edward VI Grammar School Foundation. This is a Charitable Trust which runs the 6 King Edward Foundation Grammar Schools in Birmingham.
So I will need to redirect my request for the information to the Foundation. What I'm not sure about is whether Charitable Trusts have the same obligations under the FOI as Government departments; maybe Romeo's wife can advise?? Not doubt I will soon find out.
I think what is apparent, is that the information would have been provided by the LEA under the FOI if they held it. So I think this is good news for parents in LEAs where they administer the 11+ tests and results within themselves. (B/Ham LEA do this for a small group of other Grammar Schools within the authority but not for the KE Grammars)
Will keep you updated on progress via this forum.
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Guest
Ken, Apparently the information has to be for the 'public good'. So the general public should be able to benefit by the information. I think KE will hide behind the appeals process - I am sure that they have already thought this through and have no intention of giving this information out. I also think that as the tests are now administered by CEM in Durham, the results of the tests will not be as clear cut as NFER tests used to be. They do not give results like "87%", for example. They give levels. The MidYis test is also administered by the same group and they give predictions, which I think is where KE were going with changing the test. They wanted an accurate prediction of a child's capability irrespective of their previous educational experience. I also think that there must be weightings in the test. The synonym part was so incredibly difficult for the majority of children and so geared to white middle class children that it would be ridiculous for one mark in that section to equal one mark in another section. Odd that they have that section in a city where many children do not have English as their first language at home. Just my musings, of course, I have absolutely no inside informaiton! I hope that your requests come to fruition, but I suspect that it has already been considered and we are all going to be disappointed.
Dan
Dan
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Guest
Dan
I think you are right - they will try to wriggle out of it, but probably on the basis that they are not a public authority. Their foundation status probably exempts them from the Act. The FOI Act only applies to publicly funded bodies such as LEAs and govt departments. If the Foundation was a publicly funded body then they would have to give the information. May be this is andvantage for the schools as they can be as arbitrary as they like, they are not run by the LEA. I know that the schools have money from the LEA, but the admissions information comes from the Foundation which is not funded by the LEA. You might have more joy if you applied to the schools themselves = I don't know, as they would say that the foundation does the admissions (the schools have an Admissions Committee on their governing bodies). All very confusing, good luck
I think you are right - they will try to wriggle out of it, but probably on the basis that they are not a public authority. Their foundation status probably exempts them from the Act. The FOI Act only applies to publicly funded bodies such as LEAs and govt departments. If the Foundation was a publicly funded body then they would have to give the information. May be this is andvantage for the schools as they can be as arbitrary as they like, they are not run by the LEA. I know that the schools have money from the LEA, but the admissions information comes from the Foundation which is not funded by the LEA. You might have more joy if you applied to the schools themselves = I don't know, as they would say that the foundation does the admissions (the schools have an Admissions Committee on their governing bodies). All very confusing, good luck
