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 Post subject: Grammar v Comprehensive
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear All

Carrying on from a thread in the Berkshire section.........

Spanner in the works time....most who read this forum probably realise that I am tutor.....however I would be very happy with a Comprehensive system. We do not have that luxury in Bucks either send your child to an upper [GCSE results 20/40%] or to a grammar [98/99/100%]

There are many good Comprehensives around the country [ taking the grammar school standard children and setting them accordingly]

It is a misconception that Grammar means well behaved.....drugs/bad behaviour/bullying/bitching/use of supply teachers [ who dont know the subject and just babysit ] still go on. I know of classes that cannot be controlled by certain teachers [ or should I say a handful of mis -behaved but they disrupt the lesson and others get caught up in the behaviour]

Not every class has its problems but they are still there whether its a Grammar/Comprehensive/Upper

We have the 11 plus system in Bucks so we have to 'play it'

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:11 pm 
Due to boredom and lack of stimulation, the brightest children are often the ones who are disruptive in class. Keeping this in mind, it is not surprising that some grammars will have behaviourial problems. Furthermore, unlike the independent sector grammars cannot perpetuate a social elitist system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:23 am 
Due to boredom and lack of stimulation I am entertaining myself by posting to the site.

Grammar v. Comprehensive

In which subject, taught at GCSE level, can you take a full course and be guaranteed NOT to get a 'C' grade?

The answer is

Mathematics

Maths is the only subject, that I am aware of, that has three levels of entry; Foundation, Intermediate and Higher.

At the Foundation level the highest grade attainable is a 'D' grade.

The first statistic of concern to comprehensive schools is the "pass", not the quality of the "pass". Therefore, as a safety net, many pupils who are assessed as 'D' grade students are entered for the foundation paper. This goes against the guidance of the examining boards who recommend 'D' grade students should be entered for the Intermediate paper, where the grade boundaries are 'E' to 'B'. The student could still attain their 'D' grade but would have the opportunity to achieve a 'C' grade.

The emphasis on the "pass" rather than the "quality of the pass" is a differentiating factor between Grammar and Comprehensive schools.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear Mike

Think we are both bored....how sad is that......been waiting for one of your replies on this one [ I was bored when I posted the thread ] Suppose I was trying to say that in areas where there are just comprehesives they are alot better off than Bucks when the alternative is an upper.

Maths ....dont get me started....we are a mathmatical family and the grading system is diabolical. I believe last year 23% was the mark for a C [ cant remember the board] What is the point?

Not all comprehensives are going to put their children in for the lower bands. Afterall they are still catering for the children who would have gone to grammar [ if there was one] These of course would be put in for higher levels.

I have been so busy all day.....2 hours ago I was sleepy I am now wide awake!!!!

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:48 am 
The gradings for Maths have to be put into the context of the examination that was taken:

Higher gradings A* A B C

C being the lowest grading on the paper would require a lower mark because the lowest level of questions on the paper would be C grade questions.

Intermediate gradings B C D E

A student would need between 48-52% for a C on this paper

Foundation gradings D E F

A student would not be able to get a C on this paper

A grammar school student would never sit a Foundation paper.

Grammar v Comprehensive

How does Wirral Grammar School for Girls consistently attain 100% 'C' grades or above at 'A' level in all subjects?

Answer: They do not enter girls who are assessed below the 'C' grade.

This would not happen in Comprehensive schools because they are happy with a pass at any grade.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:05 am 
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Posts: 2660
Edexel =16% = C

AQA = 20% = C


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:27 am 
Sssshhhh

Don't tell everyone or else they will all want one.

If the pass rate is so low, why do so many students not attain the grade?

I think it is because many maths teachers are useless and should be sent down the pits to dig coal for a living, I am sure they will not survive long on a productivity rate of less than 50%.

Why is maths a compulsory subject anyway, after level 6 (D grade) it becomes academic. I can still recite the formula for working out quadratic equations, but have never used it in my life.

How many students say "Why do I have to know this?", my answer is that it is so you can jump through a hoop, get a 'C' grade and never look at maths again. Oh, and it is also to keep maths teachers in jobs, because if they were not teaching what else could they do?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:04 pm 
Question To Mike and Patricia, will you be writing a book then starring in your own movie next? *rolls eyes*.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:01 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Richmond
I heartily agree with Mike Edwards's comments re comprehencive education.
went to a grammar school, which quadrupled in size when it went comprehensive ( I was 14 at that time.) Learning had been valued and behaviour, certainly in class was good. In the comprehensive, learning was sneered at, the teachers could not control the classes. The school is now a 'sink school' and parents who want a learning environment are forced, if they can afford it, to pay for private education.
I went to university, but children from that school do not now go to university, so has severely hampered the prospects of those scholdren who want to learn but whose parents cannot afford private education.
When I was at the grammar, hardly any private schools existed in that city, there are now many.
For my own children, all I want is for them to in an environment where learning is seen to be a good thing. If they get into the (one!) local grammar, then fine, otherwise we will pay for them to go to a school where they will mix with children whose parents instill a respect for the school and learning - most will not be rich snobs, ( can just anticipate flames on this) but people who are prepared to prioritise their spending to education.
Sadly, cannot help those who simply don't have them money - shame that successive governments continue to let those people (who bear proportionately the hifhest taxes) down.
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Best Regards,
Thea

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Best Regards,
Thea


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