Why A Grammar Education.....

[countrymum]

Having had so many up's downs and different emotions along the way in this 11+ journey, it really has made me question why it is I want DD to have a Grammar education. May sound a bit hypocritical, but I'm not totally 100% for a selective education. Of course I want DD to have the best education, but results aren't the be all and end all for me, and what it is all about. DD thrives when she is amongst like minded children who are keen to learn, and she doesn't cope too well with disruption so am wanting to offer her the best environment for her to flourish in.

I haven't done lots of research into why a GS education is better for this reason or that reason, but would be really interested to know why a GS education is the path you have chosen for your DC's.

[mystery]

Haven't chosen yet, but if and when we do, it's because we live in county where there is "universal" grammar school provision, so if you don't go to a grammar school there isn't the option of a "comprehensive" comprehensive.

[StJamesDad]

Hi countrymum.
I assume you mean GS v comp, and not indie.

At a basic level, DD2 is quite bright, DW went to a GS, and as a lot of children do the 11+ at her state primary it was always on the cards to take the test.
We have quite a good GS around the corner, so as she passed for it I guess there was not much else we would/could have done.

I am not that keen on the system either, but its just where we found ourselves. We have been very lucky to get DD2 into what seems a very nice school.
I guess the main reason we wanted it for her is that, like you and for the same reasons, we feel she will flourish in that environment. Both academically and socially.

[Reading Mum]

DD thrives when she is amongst like minded children who are keen to learn ... so am wanting to offer her the best environment for her to flourish in.

This is my reason too so it will be GS or selective Indie

[copella]

I am not keen on grammar schools but as already said, it is the system we have and it really is with a heavy heart that we put both our sons in for the exams. If we lived next to a decent comp both our boys would have gone there. As some comps can offer a fantastic education and experience for their children. Unfortunately my older DS did not pass and our local comp which he attends is failing. (please don't ask for some reason we were very blinkered and stupid 4 years ago). My youngest is bright and I could not and would not send him to a sch where I am already struggling to send his brother. We live in an area where we only have the choice of 2 grammars and one semi selective and so competition is great for those school places, but even so we were clear which of these we wanted him to go to as the others for various reasons whilst excellent schools would not have suited him. Luckily he got his and our first choice. We put alot of effort to ensure that my eldest gets many of the same opportunities his younger brother will be getting, but I can already after one term see the difference in terms of language, opinions and expectations of self. I have however noticed this rubbing of on the older one who will not be out done by his younger brother.

[leanmeamum]

Unfortunately we are in an area where we are surrounded by failing or special measures comprehensives so the only option for us was the local GS or an indie.

[JRM]

For us it was about the 2 schools that were practical options for us, and not whether they were grammars or not. I was not allowed to sit the 11+ as a child as my Dad was against selective education, yet he was more for DS sitting the test than I was. I love the pastoral care and the extra curricular activities that our chosen school provides and their ability to treat each child as an individual. The actual academic stuff kind of came after that.

I we miss out on distance I shall be convincing myself that I don't really approve of grammar schools actually after all!

[StJamesDad]

Was about to say a similar thing JRM.
It was the school that we liked, but of course it is that way because it is a GS I guess.

Is it not easier to ask why would you not want a GS education?
Are they not just generally better schools?

Shame we cannot have more good comps or just a better system, but it is what it is and everyone has to just do their best.

[Looking for help]

I am vehemently opposed to the grammar system, which we got involved with because it was the only practical school for my children to attend- closest faith school.

However, while it was a good school, it's not actually a patch on the good comprehensive my youngest (who didn't get in - hence my vehemence ) is going to now. There are far more opportunities available at the comprehensive. Here he stands out, despite the fact it is twice the size of the grammar, and I wish I had saved myself all the stress with my others, as I'm not sure it's actually worth it in the end.

The thing is, if GS were abolished, all areas would be comprehensive and there would be a fighting chance for those who currently don't get in, rather than this feeling that at 10 or 11 these children have lost out on opportunity for success. Also it would be far easier to standardise the 'league tables' so people can make proper judgement - of course a GS is going to have 99% A-C or whatever the current method of scoring is, while a comprehensive might only have 50-60%. But that doesn't make it a toxic school - it just caters for wide ranging ability.

A further argument to get rid of the lot is that they don't really do anything to promote social mobility any more - the obscene tutoring that goes on effectively takes it out of the realms of those without access to either private tuition or simply materials to practice on at home, so a bright kid from a deprived background really has no chance.

Yes there would still be the postcode lottery and the selection by faith etc etc, but it would still be a far fairer system. (eg in Scotland).

Bring on the revolution I say

[StJamesDad]

Well, as has been said, there are two things going on here. One being wether you agree with the system, and the other being what you do in the system we have.

Looking for help........ How could the grammar be the only option if your youngest goes somewhere else? It seems like you just picked the wrong school the first time around.
Seems very hypocritical to call for a revolution after trying to get two DC into GS If both DC had got into GS and it was a good school, would you still want them scrapped?

If GS were abolished, what would happen to the schools? They would just become more like struggling comps, but struggling comps would not get more like GS.

I thought bright kids from deprived backgrounds (and bright kids from normal backgrounds) were what grammars were actually for? I think we should aim to get back to those principles, rather than scrap the whole system.

There are many reasons why some comps are not great places. I think dealing with some of those would be the best place to start.