Council staff secretly recommending 11plus private tutoring

[Amber]

What always needs to be remembered in these discussions is that there is one national curriculum, one set of GCSEs, one set of 'A' levels. There aren't special, hard ones for children at Grammar Schools or expensive independents. So talk of a frenetic pace of learning with which normal children can't possibly keep up is a bit exaggerated, at best, and totally inaccurate at worst. It is only like setting or streaming, and it is still not all that difficult for most children of average or above-average ability to keep on top of. The hard part is getting into a selective school: once you're there, you do the same as everyone else, I'm afraid. You just do it with a different peer group - which of course is what selection is all about.

[yoyo123]

[leanmeamum]

But that would imply my dd is an exception and I just don't get the sense that is the case.

By and large, the majority of her fellow pupils were tutored or coached one way or another to get in, and if i rely on what my dd tells me, it was alot. Most have adapted and cope with the pace of learning with the exception of one or two and this is reflected in each of classes in her year group.

I'm not yet convinced by the argument that children who receive significant tutoring but pass the eleven plus will 'probably' struggle. Obviously some will, but I think they are the exception as opposed to the other way round.

Most children would not pass he 11+ if they were left to their schools as the lack of homework does not encourage them to work regularly. As the 11+ stands at the moment (some areas), it is becoming more and more intensive as the bar keeps getting raised and the exams seem to require a child to have the level of maturity and work ethics of a 13 - 14 year old at the age of 10/11.

I agree that the 11+ preparation (tutoring or DIY) teaches the child the discipline of working regularly. This is the most important lesson they learn which helps them to cope with the pressures of competitive schools. They do not need tutors if they have the discipline and the environment to work consistently. A little everyday is all that is needed.

Even the non-tutored children are successful because of their genuine curiosity and interest in things around them and the constant supply of knowledge to them in the form of books, conversations, information, etc. They have an inborn desire to learn but some need to be shown the way in order to cultivate the desire to learn by parents or tutors.

[mystery]

Yes it has always puzzled me that children might get accidentally into a Kent grammar and then struggle.

However,some schools do go beyond the syllabus, (not the kent grammar I am thinking of, but maybe some do). So it might be that a borderline grammar child could struggle at one of those.

Yes there's only one gcse, but there's higher tier and foundation in some, and the spread between an a and an f is huge, and not everyone does a levels. I'm sure at a super selective school that moved on faster because of its intake a child who was capable of all a's at gcse could struggle.

I see people not trying the 11 plus whose kids seem capable but the parents worry. I feel sorry for them as some of the alternatives here are not great, and sorry that the parents don't have more faith in the child.

Good comps across the board would be preferable though.

[Daogroupie]

I think the type of tutoring is at issue here. There is working with dc's to encourage them to reach their potential and there is intensive tutoring where the dc is the passive receipient. I run classes in which dc's can either sit passively or actively engage in the discussions. Some question and challenge me on my opinions so I really have to be on my toes, some sit there waiting to be told the answer. I can easily see which ones are going to make the most of selective education. In my dd's school there are students who secured an academic place but are not progressing at the pace you would expect of those who have sat exams with 900 other students and scored high enough to secure one of 65 places. I was puzzled by this to start with but soon detected a general theme of a very passive approach to learning among these students. How well a student will do when they get to secondary school is really upto them. DG

[hermanmunster]

Am sure that a lot of the kids who have tuition would have got in anyway - trouble is that we will never know!

re actively engaging etc - always reminds me of the "empty vessels make the most noise" DS is certainly finding this at university - some people seem to do a lot in tutorials but the marks they ultimately achieve a different story....

I will admit that teaching groups of undergraduates who just sit there and made me wonder if they had switched the neuronal connection on that morning was very frustrating and far better if they joined in and said something - but some of the best performers were among the aphonics

[mystery]

I love that word "aphonic". Yes, you can't entirely judge the passive / active learning thing in the classroom or lecture hall.

[fatbananas]

Barium meals/ aphonics. I just love this website . Even if my DC don't pass the 11+, my vocab has increased enormously.

[wonderwoman]

What always needs to be remembered in these discussions is that there is one national curriculum, one set of GCSEs, one set of 'A' levels. There aren't special, hard ones for children at Grammar Schools or expensive independents. So talk of a frenetic pace of learning with which normal children can't possibly keep up is a bit exaggerated, at best, and totally inaccurate at worst. It is only like setting or streaming, and it is still not all that difficult for most children of average or above-average ability to keep on top of. The hard part is getting into a selective school: once you're there, you do the same as everyone else, I'm afraid. You just do it with a different peer group - which of course is what selection is all about.

Of course this completely true - but our local grammars do far more subjects 12 / 13 at DCs grammar, which is a heavy workload and just 8 at the non-selective school, with the option of doing Btecs, so no exams in those subjects.

KK dad have you considered that your DD would have passed anyway without the tutoring?

[Amber]

Funnily enough that isn't the case here, with my sons' GS 'only' offering 10, with the option to do 9. ("It isn't a numbers game" said the head recently at options evening). The local 'quasi-comprehensive' has children doing 11 or even 12, as they are very fond of 'fast tracking' anyone who shows an ounce of aptitude through early MFL and Maths GCSEs in Y10, so that they can do some more MFLs and Maths the following year too. A close friend is at a highly selective independent and they only let them do 9.