Advice on GS Schools

[tand]

thanks for response. it's not about newcastle school quality. we are planning for grammar school hence the search.
query about partial / super selective school - I am trying to find % marks require for various schools. Is this information available?

Please comment.

Averagedad - thanks for clarifying doubt.

[Amber]

I sense this will be a pointless remark but one I shall make anyway.

Grammar schools are still just schools. The curriculum they follow is the same as the one followed in other schools. If you went and watched a lesson in a Year 7 class in a grammar school it would be very similar to one in a comprehensive school. And children are still just children. OK so they may have passed a test to get there (or in a partially selective school, some of them will). But they will still (and these are 'live' examples from this week at the 2 extremely well-thought-of grammar schools my children attend - not my children, you understand ): make rude remarks to teachers; fail to do their homework; be sent out of lessons for not completing work; be put in detention for racist remarks; throw pieces of scrunched up paper around a classroom; shout in an exam; run in corridors. Teachers are just teachers too: and some will be excellent, some will be OK and some will be dreadful. All 3 of my children have some in each category there. Just like in other schools.

All I am saying is please remember that grammar schools are not havens of good behaviour, hard work, teaching excellence and fine dining. So to move across the country and uproot a child from everything familiar in order to attend a grammar school, any grammar school, anywhere, needs to be done with eyes wide open to the actual differences between grammars and 'ordinary' schools, which might not be as dramatic as you think.

[mystery]

Try researching tonbridge grammar for girls and the judd school for boys. They both are super selective. For the girls school you will be competing for a fixed number of places for children living outside the area.

What year are you wanting to sit the 11plus? Watch out that a lot of areas are changing their exams. There will be a new test in kent in sept 2014 for sept 2015. Details of the new test are not yet confirmed.

[yoyo123]

The exam varies from area to area, information about the different regions has been collated here

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/schools/regions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On personal note, however, I echo Amber's sentiments.

[Averagedad]

Hi tand

'I am trying to find % marks require for various schools. Is this information available? '

My wife and I were also asking the above question like you when we're in Australia, as we didn't know anything about the UK education 'system' , let alone the grammar school 'system'.

We eventually found out from the schools that, it's NOT the % that matters, it's how much a child is better performing than others in a particular test - if a child's score is high enough to put them in the top 120/180 (depending on the school intake)

So, assuming a school has 120 places for its Year 7 intake, a child will NOT be offered a place even though they score 98% because the first 120 candidates all score higher than the child, say 99% -100%.

Whereas, a child will be offered a place even though they score 75% only because the 121 st candidate scores less, say 74%

I trust you understand that every parent has different/strong views about grammar school due to their own experience, own expectation with grammar school. But I'm sure you also understand that every child is different, so what works for another child does not necessary mean it'll work for your child. Remember, none knows better than you about your own child's ability, mentality, adaptability etc., and above all, your full circumstances.

I'm confident that you're to find the best way forward for yourself and your family, making you and them all a winner.

Good luck - this'll be my last input to you in public but feel free to send me a pm if you think I could be of further help.

Best wishes
Average Dad
Winner Stays Clam, Loser Shouts Around

[mike1880]

Grammar schools are still just schools. The curriculum they follow is the same as the one followed in other schools. If you went and watched a lesson in a Year 7 class in a grammar school it would be very similar to one in a comprehensive school. And children are still just children. OK so they may have passed a test to get there (or in a partially selective school, some of them will). But they will still (and these are 'live' examples from this week at the 2 extremely well-thought-of grammar schools my children attend - not my children, you understand ): make rude remarks to teachers; fail to do their homework; be sent out of lessons for not completing work; be put in detention for racist remarks; throw pieces of scrunched up paper around a classroom; shout in an exam; run in corridors. Teachers are just teachers too: and some will be excellent, some will be OK and some will be dreadful. All 3 of my children have some in each category there. Just like in other schools.

All I am saying is please remember that grammar schools are not havens of good behaviour, hard work, teaching excellence and fine dining. So to move across the country and uproot a child from everything familiar in order to attend a grammar school, any grammar school, anywhere, needs to be done with eyes wide open to the actual differences between grammars and 'ordinary' schools, which might not be as dramatic as you think.

I posted something similar y/day but deleted after deciding I was being hypocritical, having done my level best to get ours into GS.

But it's a valid point nonetheless. Grammar schools follow the same curriculum as everyone else and take the same GCSEs. Their results are (in most, not all cases) better than those of comprehensive schools, but that's only because they explicitly select children with a proven ability to do well in exams: they don't perform some sort of educational magic, they don't know something that other schools don't. Children still bully/get bullied, take drugs and shoplift (just picking a few random behaviour examples from the two nearest to us, both schools most people here would give their right arm to get their children into). I would advise OP to spend some time with the DofE schools attainment tables and see if there really isn't any school in Newcastle at all before moving hundreds of miles to another city - any city, apparently - in pursuit of some sort of myth of GS perfection.

Mike

[Jiff]

Hallo tand

We are in South-East London, which does not have grammar schools. 2 of my DS went to a super-selective grammar - St Olave's in Orpington - which does not have a catchment area and takes boys on the basis of highest score, and 1 went to Dartford Grammar School which takes some boys from a small catchment and the rest on highest score. You will find plenty of information on these schools on their websites, or in the Bexley section on the forum for St Olave's and in Kent for DGS. St Olave's has its own entrance test and DGS uses the Kent 11 plus to select. We also entered our DS for the Bexley tests; there are 4 Bexley grammar schools and although they mostly operate a catchment area, if your DC is in the top 180 (which I think relates to about the top 4% of scorers) they will be offered a place at your choice of grammar regardless of distance. Again, lots of information on the Bexley website, or in the Bexley section here.

Hope this helps, but please feel free to pm me if you would like any specific information about St Olave's or DGS.

[Guest55]

tand - I am confused!

You say you are moving to Bucks so I'm not sure why you want information about other areas.

In Bucks the new 11+ test will select the top 30% of the cohort. Details of what we know about the new tests is in the Bucks section - just scroll down to find it.

[hermanmunster]

I think Tand has to be aware of the stresses and problems involved in getting a DC to take multiple super selective 11 plus exams around the country and then trying to second the guess the cutoff mark before filling in the CAF and deciding to move . It is hard to do, though tempting if you really can move anywhere. Other have tried it and sometimes it has worked, other times with taking several exams they haven't quite hit the mark - the outcome on March 1st when the schools are allocated can cause problems..

[Jiff]

I would agree with hermanmunster, and should have added in my post above that you also need to be aware of the alternatives in which ever area you choose in case you don't get a high enough score for the super-selectives. Because there is no catchment area competion for places can be very high. It has certainly increased at St Olave's since my DSs got in (the youngest is now in year 12); I understand there were over 900 applicants for 120 places last year.