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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:20 pm
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Location: Warwickshire
Some interesting figures taken from the recent Sutton Trust report:
Code:
Local authority (LA)         %age of pupils in       %age of pupils at grammar   Number of
                             LA at grammar schools   schools living outside LA   Schools

All                                 4.0                        24.9                 161

Selective local authorities        25.2                        19.3                 106

Trafford                           38.5                        28.5                   7
Buckinghamshire                    36.0                        19.2                  13
Slough                             32.4                        60.0                   4
Kent                               28.4                         6.8                  32
Southend-on-Sea                    28.3                        53.4                   4
Torbay                             27.6                        40.6                   3
Medway                             27.5                        12.0                   6
Wirral                             25.8                         8.9                   6
Lincolnshire                       22.7                        17.7                  15
Bournemouth                        18.8                        37.8                   2
Reading                            18.8                        75.0                   2
Plymouth                           14.8                        34.5                   3
Gloucestershire                    12.6                         4.5                   7
Calderdale                         11.7                        30.0                   2

Isolated grammar schools (<10%)     4.6                        27.6                  36

Birmingham                          8.2                        31.2                   8
Warwickshire                        7.9                        22.8                   5
Telford and Wrekin                  7.8                        55.6                   2
Walsall                             5.6                        45.4                   2
Stoke-on-Trent                      5.6                        66.4                   1
North Yorkshire                     5.3                        29.4                   3
Wiltshire                           4.9                        21.6                   2
Wolverhampton                       4.3                        50.8                   1
Lancashire                          4.1                        14.2                   4
Kirklees                            3.4                        18.2                   1
Essex                               2.9                        21.3                   4
Liverpool                           2.5                        27.7                   1
Cumbria                             2.2                         0.0                   1
Devon                               1.7                        13.5                   1

London grammar schools             12.9                        50.8                  19

Sutton                             27.4                        63.0                   5
Bexley                             22.1                        40.9                   4
Kingston upon Thames               16.9                        68.4                   2
Barnet                             10.5                        65.6                   3
Bromley                             7.3                        35.8                   2
Redbridge                           7.2                        13.6                   2
Enfield                             4.9                        55.1                   1
To clarify these figures are pupils attending secondary schools in the local authority area - so it's 36% of secondary pupils in Buckinghamshire schools, not 36% of Buckinghamshire resident secondary students, for example.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:45 am 
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Grumpy from bucks now....the only other "wholly selective" county to bucks has only 6% of the grammar school kids from outside the lA. How come we have 19%? I know the answer is logistics, and we are a tiny county btw, but I am still grumpy, maybe our kids are genuinely a bit dim? I know the ratio is changing by 2-3% in favour of out of la each year too...when will it stop? I think I may send my kids to Kent grammars now, by way of protest, to hang with the commute. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:55 am 
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Reading is of course a selective LA, but its location and circumstances make it act more like a London Borough, which would make its 75% of GS pupils coming from outside the LA look a bit more reasonable. You can be much less than a a mile away from Kendrick or Reading Schools and be outside Reading LA!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:20 pm
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Location: Warwickshire
southbucks3 wrote:
Grumpy from bucks now....the only other "wholly selective" county to bucks has only 6% of the grammar school kids from outside the lA. How come we have 19%
Perhaps if Bucks was a large county half surrounded by sea the same would apply? A lot of the Kent schools are a long way from anywhere other than other bits of Kent!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:59 am
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I know...I said I knew in my post...you cut and pasted me like a cheap reality show. :lol:

However, the reality is that being "wholly selective" does completely limit in lA children, so drumming a very old beat, should they have their test marked within the cohort that are also subject to the selective limitations of their local education system, rather than every child who sits the test.

It's not our fault london grew :cry: we still want to make chairs and milk cows really!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
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Okanagan wrote:
southbucks3 wrote:
Grumpy from bucks now....the only other "wholly selective" county to bucks has only 6% of the grammar school kids from outside the lA. How come we have 19%
Perhaps if Bucks was a large county half surrounded by sea the same would apply? A lot of the Kent schools are a long way from anywhere other than other bits of Kent!


You beat me to it O.K.

Does it matter whether a child lives in bucks or not? I live close to the border of three counties. The schools which are out of county are way closer. Who cares? Isn't which council area you live in just a piece of bureaucracy and nothing else? Certainly it does not have anything much at all to do with schools that are academies other than being saying bucks in their postal address.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:52 pm
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Location: Shamballa
Okanagan please explain.

Does the Enfield figure of 4.9% mean that 4.9% of children in Enfield attend Grammar schools and that 55.9% of pupils attending Latymer are outside of Enfield and therefore 44.1% of pupils attending Latymer are from Enfield ?

Should there be a third column ?

_________________
"To err is human;to forgive ,divine"


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Warwickshire
I've only copied it from the original report (and made it percentages rather than proportions as it is a bit easier to read this way).
As far as I can tell from the original report it's the proportion of children receiving secondary education in that local authority area who are in grammar schools. And then the proportion of those who reside outside of that local authority's area.

So for Enfield it is saying that 4.9% children receiving secondary education in that local authority are at a grammar school (NOT 4.9% of children resident in Enfield). And yes in that case, there being only one grammar school, 55.1% of those attending that school are from outside the local authority area and by implication 44.9% actually reside there as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Now you are all cutting and pasting me, I know it's because we are bordered, and tiny, we are even bordered within our own tiny county, due to Milton Keynes.
Ok, I will state my case again, for the last ever time, as I have bored even myself.

Say in bucks you live 8miles away from the border of oxon and your friend lived 8 miles away from the borders of bucks in oxon.
Their most likely caf options would be: local comprehensive with mixed all ability children or bucks grammars with high ability children.
Your likely caf options would be bucks grammar for high ability or bucks upper which is educationally aimed at average/low ability children. (Of course it is not that simple). There would be zero chance of getting a place in the nearest comprehensive with its mixed ability cohort as the catchment is limited, granted, if you lived just within the boundaries you are very lucky.
Therefore, due to living in oxon, the child has the choice of being schooled with only high achievers, or being schooled with high achievers, average and low achievers, with further options to move amongst those levels, both over years, but more importantly within subjects.

Is it fair that due to" beurocracy", and living in bucks, we only have one chance to prevent our children being educated under an academic ceiling, yet we have to fight for that chance on an equal footing with those that have an alternative form of education with no beurocratically imposed educational ceiling at their local school. Shouldn't we at least have the chance just to have our pass mark set by those same children who have to be (due to the bucks one test meritocracy) divided between our limited school choices, rather than the whole cohort. Imagine if to get into the top sets at the local comprehensive, the children had to sit a test with all the bucks grammar kids as well, and the average test mark was therefore elevated and was used as the top set entry score...not fair, everone would cry!

Should our child turn into an academic genius 6 months into term, they cannot simply move up a set, there is no way they can join the high achievers, without even more red tape and bureaucracy.

The case is backed up by the fact that county border comprehensives have premium rate catchment property addresses just like great grammars do, and rarely will a bucks upper be chosen above a county border comp.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:26 pm
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Southbucks3 I agree with you.

It all feels a bit odd and we don't live anywhere near a border yet lots of people come in and sit the tests as OOC which is fine if the parents want their DC to go to the grammar school my issue is their very bright DC's pass and this impacts the number of in catchment that can pass.

We then have lots of DC's holding the ticket to a grammar school that they don't seem to want to actually use if I understand lots of posts on this forum esp in the Bucks area.


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