Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
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Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
Then you are very lucky, Amber. Sadly, in my day job I see them, and their offspring, all too oftenAmber wrote:The parents who supposedly don't care about their children's education (and I have never met one) need to be encouraged to do so and access to decent schools should be open to all.
JD
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
Just in case you think I have languished in leafy suburbia- I've worked in some very challenging schools in special measures; with children with behavioural and mental health issues as well as with young pregnant mothers and children with complex and severe medical or learning needs. I have yet to meet a parent who was not concerned that their child should do the best they could and be encouraged to achieve. That is not the same as saying that all parents do the best for their children; but I do believe that apart from a tiny criminal minority most parents want the best for them.
Eta - it shouldn't matter anyway. Access to schooling should not be restricted based on whether your parents are supportive or not. It could be argued that if there is limited provision the best should go to the disadvantaged not those who already have support and encouragement. I wouldn't go that far - fair access for all would do for me.
Eta - it shouldn't matter anyway. Access to schooling should not be restricted based on whether your parents are supportive or not. It could be argued that if there is limited provision the best should go to the disadvantaged not those who already have support and encouragement. I wouldn't go that far - fair access for all would do for me.
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
Even in comprehensive areas, with no Private schools or Grammars nearby, there is still selection.
The better schools are surrounded by more expensive private housing and so there is selction by income.
The better schools are surrounded by more expensive private housing and so there is selction by income.
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
My point exactly.Guest55 wrote:Even in comprehensive areas, with no Private schools or Grammars nearby, there is still selection.
The better schools are surrounded by more expensive private housing and so there is selction by income.
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
I am fully aware of the point you were making and as things stand I was not disagreeing with it as a fact. It is one of the main arguments used by supporters of selective education - 'well you can't ever make it fair so we may as well keep grammar schools because they aren't any worse than so-called comprehensives'.Yamin151 wrote:My point exactly.Guest55 wrote:Even in comprehensive areas, with no Private schools or Grammars nearby, there is still selection.
The better schools are surrounded by more expensive private housing and so there is selction by income.
But Proud_Dad had made a point which I endorse, that the whole grammar school system is inherently unfair, and should be replaced with a system where every child, regardless of wealth, class or intelligence gets the opportunity to go to a good school - this is an aspiration and not a statement of how things currently are. If we accept that the postcode lottery is a fact which cannot ever be altered, then there is little point in aspiring to anything greater or more worthwhile. The more diversity you have in a system, the more 'choice', the more unequal it will be. And always in favour of the middle classes. If every school was a good one, then access would be fair. That is what we should aspire to.
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
Yes - I think all schools could be good but we do need to get rid of private schools AND grammars.
A pay rise for teachers and not having to work 70+ hours a week might help too.
A pay rise for teachers and not having to work 70+ hours a week might help too.
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
Agreed on both counts.Guest55 wrote:Yes - I think all schools could be good but we do need to get rid of private schools AND grammars.
A pay rise for teachers and not having to work 70+ hours a week might help too.
But watch the press over the next few days for the bun fight over PISA. I'm going to be one very busy woman...
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
For many years the data has shown, in areas without grammars too, that school gcse performance correlates quite well with school fsm percentage. I remember this over ten years ago in a huge metropolitan authority which had no state selectives and only a very tiny proportion of secondary age children educated privately. It is a correlation and not a causative relationship.
I think there is a bit of a smoke screen effect in the news at the moment which is making it look as though it is terribly easy to sort the issue of social mobility having reduced. A few grammars let in some fsm children and, hey presto, a problem has been tackled.
I think there is a bit of a smoke screen effect in the news at the moment which is making it look as though it is terribly easy to sort the issue of social mobility having reduced. A few grammars let in some fsm children and, hey presto, a problem has been tackled.
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
Right on cue!Amber wrote: But watch the press over the next few days for the bun fight over PISA. I'm going to be one very busy woman...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ed ... ching.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You bad, wicked teachers!
Marylou
Re: Grammar schools 'distorted in favour of middle-classes'
Haha! Radio 5 live, first caller this morning 'bring back grammar schools' zzzzzz
mad?