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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:17 pm
Posts: 60
There are a few threads regarding grammar Schools and FSM but, more emphasis
has to be placed on the widening social gap as a direct result of dominance of
grammar schools from middle to high income families.

The independent article
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 49702.html

describes grammer schools as 'stuffed full of middle class kids'.

There can be many debates about the direction that grammar schools need to take to address this but, linking places with FSM, while a step in the right direction, does not go far enough.

Ultimately every grammar school place has to be linked with family income with certain restrictions applied.

1. Extend the current limited places designated for children on FSM to children whose parents are on working tax credit (to be replaced by Universal Credit) so that eventually every grammer school place is linked with family income.

2. Prohibit children currently attending private independent schools applying for grammar school places.

3. Limit maximum 2 siblings obtaining grammar school places.

4. Regardless of how heavily tutored children are, ultimately places will go to lower income families, probably with lower qualifying scores - going back to the ethos of why grammar school were established in the first place. Eventually the growing 11+ business that has developed would be scaled back as, its target group of middle to higher income parents will not gain an unfair advantage to propel their son/daughter to grammar school.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
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It might be easier to scrap grammar schools.

The research is a little strange. They found a £1.31 per hour average difference in pay between top earners in grammar areas and top earners in comprehensive areas. Couldn't this mostly be to do with the geographical areas in which most grammars are? The bottom earning differential was interesting though. It needs some more research as to why that is. Gut feeling tells me it is some confounding factor and nothing to do with the school systems.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:08 pm
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I am not aware of any evidence that middle class families are likely to have more children than poorer famililes, so why are you wanting to discriminate against the younger siblings of poor families by not allowing them grammar school access?


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:59 am
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Location: West Midlands
Recent news talks about eradicating poverty rather than inequality.
What matters is equalising opportunity, and that might means positive discrimination at a very early age to enable the opportunity to compete equally by time of 11+.

Additionally, later opportunities post-11+.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
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Our school does this. It provides a poor education to all so children from all income brackets fail the 11 plus. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:05 am
Posts: 580
My DS GS class seems to reflect a true range of the area in which it resides. Out of 30 boys in the class, there are 5 from indies, ranging from an extremely prestigious one to local indies, there are a few very middle class families, there are 4 boys on FSM and a huge range in between. The cultural / ethnic mix is fully reflected too. My DD GS was nearly all 4x4 range rovers etc, whereas at my sons GS our battered old golf sits happily between BMW and Ka's.

I would rather there were no GS, but in my area we have 7. So, I'm glad the one we chose for my youngest is walking distance and pretty reflective of his community. We've been lucky. :D


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:59 am
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Quote:
Out of 30 boys in the class, there are 5 from indies,


Do 1/6th of the children in the local area go to independent prinary schools?


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:05 am
Posts: 580
southbucks3 wrote:
Quote:
Out of 30 boys in the class, there are 5 from indies,


Do 1/6th of the children in the local area go to independent prinary schools?



Fair point, SB's but sadly within the county, probably so, although not within catchment, you are right, ( hangs head) :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:59 am
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Now I feel snotty....lift your head up again!

Realistically to be able to afford private primary school, some of the parents will be in well paid jobs near the top of their profession, so fairly intelligent, hence genetic intelligence is passed on, hence a higher representation at gs. Not suggesting this is true in all cases of course, and border line children will almost definitely get a push in the right direction from a prep school, but maybe not from a state school.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:28 pm
Posts: 2439
I think an element of postcode lottery comes into play. Parents like to send their children to good grammar schools, or good comprehensives in non- Gs areas, so house prices get inflated in these areas, so only the wealthy can afford them, and these tend to be the more intelligent people ( sorry to generalise ). Having catchment areas inflates this problem.

So, ironically, grammar schools could be deemed as more open to all, as they often have none or a wider catchment, so are open to all children, not just those who's parents can afford the in-catchment houses.


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