Min. Level 5 required for Grammar School??

[Peridot]

Getting into GS is definitely an achievement in itself. Obviously in the class, there will be children in the top group and bottom group. I guess L6 would be the former and L4/5 would be in the latter. As long as the parent & child can accept the fact that after being in the top group in primary for years, one could land up in bottom group at GS, it should be fine.

They don't usually put them in groups or sets at grammar school parent2013 in my experience. My son is in year 10 and is set for maths and nothing else (three sets across the year). My DD is in year 7 and set only for PE/games (three sets across the year). I expect she will be set for maths from year 9 as my son was.

Yes there are mixed abilities at GS - we are all different, with some incredible at art, music, drama, sport or dance of course as well as academic subjects - but they are overall still higher ability children. In fact we've found (I've said this before elsewhere!) that it's often the children who brag the most about their incredibly high scores in the 11 plus who are actually less able than some of the others who came in from the waiting list. Some abilities and aptitudes develop or wane as they discover what subjects they really love as their world opens up at secondary school.

[mad?]

In fact we've found (I've said this before elsewhere!) that it's often the children who brag the most about their incredibly high scores in the 11 plus who are actually less able than some of the others who came in from the waiting list. Some abilities and aptitudes develop or wane as they discover what subjects they really love as their world opens up at secondary school.

Plus one to this Peridot, certainly what I have seen.

[Daogroupie]

So what is involved in being Gifted and Talented in English if it does not cover being able to write and comprehend text at Level Six? In terms of those who secure high marks in the exams and how they fare at secondary selectives it has been my experience that some of those who come in off the waiting list are the most focused and determined. At my dd's school nobody cares how you got in or what mark you got, it is all about what you do when you get there. DG

[Peridot]

I don't know what Gifted and Talented in English covers as my children's primary didn't use this label. It would be interesting to know if there is a definition though!

Fully agree with your last sentence DG about it's what you do when you get to secondary school that's important - you can spread your wings and if you work hard nothing is impossible.

[JamesDean]

I don't know what Gifted and Talented in English covers as my children's primary didn't use this label. It would be interesting to know if there is a definition though!

It's my understanding that the awful G+T term is no longer used - much like Every Child Matters (clearly they don't ...). If a school still chooses to label their high achievers as such, that's down to them, but its no longer nationally recognised.

JD

[wonderwoman]

It is hard to really keep track of an individual student's progress in a class of 30. The TA is much more likely to have a handle on it as they spend the time working with individual students. DG

I'm sorry, but that is simply not true. How can you say a TA, who is generally part time, does little or no marking and assessing and planning is usually in the form of discussion and feedback about activities planned by the teacher, will know more about pupils in the class than the teacher? Just think about the statement - why would it be worth paying a teacher?
And it is not hard to keep track of an individual's achievement and progress.

I don't know what Gifted and Talented in English covers as my children's primary didn't use this label. It would be interesting to know if there is a definition though!

It is an outdated term - when it was brought in we had to identify the top 10% - 15% in each cohort. It was ludicrous as I worked in a tiny school and usually amounted to one or 2 pupils per class. So it was possible that a pupil identified as G&T was really of average ability and this labelling was not at all useful.

[tiffinboys]

@HSP2201. Whatever the levels, your DC has got the place and that what matter at the moment. As DG mentioned, it is what they do now in GS will count, whatever their SAT levels were.

In my experience, some times teachers get it very wrong in their assessment of children. DC was in top set for both Maths and English. Every one in the Maths top set (about 30 kids) were entered for level 6 test and almost all got level 6. Teacher assessment was level 5 for our DC and many other children that I know of. As far as new English tests, DC was not entered for level 6 and when I asked the teacher, she gave the impression as if none was entered. Long time after, I found that 4 or 5 kids were entered as experiment as this was the first time for level 6 English SATs and 2 claimed to have got level 6. And surprisingly, one of them didn't get place in any GS but got into a very selective indie with scholarship. So much for SATs and teachers' assessment. I think teachers can not form a better opinion unless they are working very closely with the child and we all know that they are very much over-worked at State primaries to be able to do so.

[southbucks3]

HSP2201.
Hopefully you are listening to the majority here.

Even if you respect the teachers assessment totally 4a is still ok, he will be fine, he will catch up, he will be writing huge amounts in history, geography English lit, every week. Therefore the practice, repetition and board copying will naturally help his English skills.

[mystery]

Hi All

After years of home tutoring our son for the grammar school selective tests, we are fortunate that he has accepted a place at Wallington County Grammar. However, in hindsight, preparing, taking and passing the tests seems the easy part now. I'm concerned after hearing many parents talk about the fact their children are already at a good Level 5 (5B or 5A) or Level 6 in English Reading; English Writing; GPS and Maths and how competitive it will be at Grammar. At the parents evening at Wilson's Grammar last summer, the Head Master did mention that children should be working towards to a good Level 5 in order to be able to cope with grammar school.

Our son was progressing well, so I thought as at the end of Year 5, he was working towards all Level 5 in all subjects and his class teacher then was confident he would leave with all Level 5s. However, after recent discussions with his current year 6 teacher and results from his Mock SATS tests, his teacher said he is Level 5A Maths; 5B GPS; 5C English reading and worryingly, 4A or 4BH in English Writing. Given his current levels, he was still requested to sit all Level 6 SATS papers in Maths; Reading and GPS.

Do you agree that his levels in English are too low for Grammar and he will struggle? Could I support him in any way to cope and be more confident by finding an English Tutor?

Would love to hear from other parents who have children at Grammar. Did your children all start grammar on Level 5? Did anyone have a child achieving Level 4 in English when they started and how did they find it?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Regards

HSP2201

Your son is working towards a good level 5 in everything if you think of it in terms of maths and English by rolling everything into one. The only component of English which the teacher thinks he is not a good level 5 in currently is English writing. As it is only teacher assessed you will never know what someone other than her thinks. I'd forget it and tell your son that it's a worthless assessment (even if she is correct) and that if he gets a half decent English teacher at grammar school and he works hard at it his English writing level can change enormously during year 7. (but levels are out soon anyhow!)

Our school's English writing levels at the end of year 6 are curious. If you look at the 2013 KS2 results everything is bad to mediocre apart from English writing. Bit of teacher assessment grade inflation perhaps? Read a piece of guidance on assessing English writing at KS2, look at some teacher debates on TES and you'll see that the same piece of writing can get vastly different grades from different teachers and even with moderation (I know G55 is going to say "isn't your school moderated?"!!!) it is still an art not a science. Maths marking is much more straightforward. Even then it can be misleading and is not an absolute predictor of future maths ability (I mean real maths, not school arithmetic etc). You can have a very accurate child who can pick up most of the marks at level 4 and level 5 through good teaching and lots of practice who isn't going to have the makings of a mathematician later on, but another child who flings away easy marks all over the place who has much more flair for maths.

Half the parents I speak to talk loosely about "English levels" - I am not even sure if the reading, writing and SPAG elements are combined into an overall result or not these days.

I don't know what planet teachers are on who think they can assess English writing and predict the future so well, particularly at primary school. Some teachers' absolute certainty makes me doubt their judgement (in all respects) all the more.

[tiffinboys]

To take the mystery's point, I read some where that J K Rowling's (Harry Potter fame) English teacher frowned upon her writing. So there we are in writing assessments.