Prince of Wales & Grammar Schools

[tiffinboys]

If primary schools are inefficient then that should be looked by Ofsted as well.

If being geek is not bad in most of our comprehensives, then may be some day Level 6 could be taught in the same place, if schools remain sufficiently challenging. But then, some would not like streaming as well.

[Amber]

If primary schools are inefficient then that should be looked by Ofsted as well.

'Inefficient': yes, well this is of course what it now comes down to. Schools as factories and students as 'human capital' (and yes, universities already openly talk in this way - I bet the language has crept into schools too); with a hefty cadre of punitive inspectors patrolling the factories to ensure that output meets targets. Tests and levels make it far easier to decide whether output is falling, of course, because once you acknowledge that human capital actually means people and people have a side which can't be measured, your system starts to fall down. Those of us who oppose the high-stakes testing going on in primary schools generally do so because of this, human angle, rather than because we want to protect children from the feeling of failure - though that is hugely important too in pre-pubescent children. If success is so narrowly defined (level 4= hmm well not great; level 5=pretty good but not as good as level 6; level 6= goodness but aren't you a clever bunny?) then not only will schools be forced to teach to the tests which define it, but the job of inspectors is made nice and easy in sitting in judgement over it.

comprehensives, which then fail to deliver.

All children go to comprehensives (even if some do not want to call these comprehensives). And yet these are not performing.

The extent to which you generalise, particularly when talking about schools you don't like (everywhere except Tiffin and schools like it?) makes it hard to take your arguments seriously.

[Guest55]

Tiffinboys - I mean NO transport at all - look at a map of Bucks - many places are miles from schools. It can take two hours to drive from the northern tip to the southern tip ....

By the way there are 13 GS but they are not evenly spread throughout the county.

[southbucks3]

The Milton Keynes area of bucks is separate and did away with grammar schools before it even became Milton Keynes properly. They have some of the highest performing, mixed ability, mixed sex, non religious secondary schools in the country in Milton Keynes, but admittedly some pretty poor ones too.

[tiffinboys]

The full quote was:

There are many areas where there are no grammars. All children go to comprehensives (even if some do not want to call these comprehensives). And yet these are not performing. In our area, I mentioned before and that point was ignored, that only about 60 kids got into Tiffin. Similar number may have gone to outer area gramars and independents. Rest of the thousands went to comprehensives. Are these performing any better? Grammars in every borough, together with full efforts to improve the other secondary schools is the need of the time.

The extent to which you generalise, particularly when talking about schools you don't like (everywhere except Tiffin and schools like it?) makes it hard to take your arguments seriously.

No. I speak from local experience. If in doubt, any one can check dfe performance tables and also check each school's website for A*-B grades for Kingston schools. I had given these figures at another thread some time ago. Despite, almost all of local children going to comprehensives, there is huge gap between the performance of grammars and local comprehensives.

If there wasn't such difference in other areas as well, people opposed to grammars would not send their children to grammars. Isn't this true?

[southbucks3]

The question is simply, would a superstar, high scoring child fare any worse in his/her gcse exams in an ofsted outstanding mixed ability, mixed religion, mixed sex school, than an ofsted outstanding grammar school?

The curriculum at bucks uppers can be far more limiting than that at grammar, and you will have to search hard for the outstanding ones. I am fairly sure my son would have done very well at upper, but he would not have been able to study languages other than French, nor would he have been able to study triple science as well as all the other academic subjects, if he wanted to. The good thing is our upper is one that pushes triple science, many do not. The limited curriculum and instability of quality is why we opted for grammar, not the grades obtained st gcse, that is down to the child and their motivation as tree and Rob Clarke have proved with their grammar rejected brilliant children.
Though of course it was the design depts 3d printer that swung it for us.

[tiffinboys]

The curriculum at bucks uppers can be far more limiting than that at grammar, and you will have to search hard for the outstanding ones.

No wonder, bright kids should opt for grammars; I rest my case.

[Amber]

The curriculum at bucks uppers can be far more limiting than that at grammar, and you will have to search hard for the outstanding ones.

No wonder, bright kids should opt for grammars; I rest my case.

If, as appears to be the case, you can see no contradiction in your position, no wider issues, nor any need to consider the needs of children not deemed 'bright', then I think the only sensible course is for the rest of us to rest ours, too.

[kateJ]

Amber: I find it really hard to understand how you criticise selection and yet send yours to one. I'm sorry but I find this incredibly hypocritical. I would have thought that you would be more interested in supporting your local comps seeing as that is where you believe all children should go - that all schools would be better if those darned grammar schools did not cream off the best.

This brilliant site exists because parents want the best for their children. The 11+, while far from perfect, allows parents to compete for a place in a grammar school. Why do you think parents want this? Why did you want this? I have worked very hard to get both my children into grammar school. I paid for tuition because the scarcity of places means that there is not a level playing field - mine had to compete with private school children who were streets ahead of mine before tuition. I feel angry when I hear of people not putting their children in for the 11+ due to cost of tuition. It is so wrong, yet the dearth of places - the wrong politics and the hypocrisy of those politicians who say no to grammar schools yet are able to avoid the local comp are to blame for the lack of schools and places for very able, but poor families.

It is so wrong - more grammar schools please - and while we're at it - bring back Technical schools to provide the training and vocational courses that are also lacking in this country.

Prince Charles is so right. I hope Gove listens.

[scary mum]

allows parents to compete

And there's me thinking it was the children who sat the exams & went to the school.

I think southbucks3 explained some of the reasons why a GS may be chosen by people who don't really agree with them (I am one as well - with 3 children at GS, yes, I'm a hypocrite too).