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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:20 am 
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....Toby Young is writing something like this. I probably should have put it in Independent Schools but as the messenger I didn't fancy being shot. :D
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyy ... um=twitter


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:29 am 
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Amber wrote:
....Toby Young is writing something like this. I probably should have put it in Independent Schools but as the messenger I didn't fancy being shot. :D
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyy ... um=twitter


As I know you and I agree on, school is about so much more than the academic results and the earning potential of the children. Schools, should you be lucky enough to have the choice of them all, are about giving your child the best education FOR THEM, not about proving that they are the most academic or will send the children into the most highly paid jobs. This saddens me, what happened to bringing up citizens instead of earning machines? Anyone not using that philosophy when choosing an education for their child deserves to be frightened by data like this, those of us who want a rounded, happy individual will carry on much as we are!

Good and bad all around.

Thanks for posting! :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:44 am 
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I think the biggest shock in all that though is that once you factor out all the other variables, it actually isn't worth the money - as Toby Young points out in that article. I never thought I would find myself agreeing with that man, but I can't argue with this
Quote:
There's also some evidence that removing the brightest children from state schools has a negative effect on their peers who would otherwise be educated alongside them (particularly girls) – the so-called "peer effect".
or this
Quote:
But the solution is not to cream skim the most gifted children from the bottom 40 per cent of household incomes and pack them off to private schools. Rather, it's to improve state schools.
or this
Quote:
So it's official. Educating your child at a private school is a waste of money – a colossal waste of money if you send them to a boarding school.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:50 am 
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I agree with what is in the article. However, he was dealing with the issue of 'packing bright children to private schools'. Not to grammars. They are also the state school. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:58 am 
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Yes. More "research" from the Sutton trust with not very well thought out conclusions and action points. Who funds their research?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:00 pm 
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tiffinboys wrote:
I agree with what is in the article. However, he was dealing with the issue of 'packing bright children to private schools'. Not to grammars. They are also the state school. :wink:
You are exasperating, tiffinboys. No one said he was talking about grammar schools. The article is about wasting money paying for education and he also mentions the issue of selection.

I am sure he thinks Tiffin is wonderful, as we all do, don't we everyone? Sigh.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Amber wrote:
tiffinboys wrote:
I agree with what is in the article. However, he was dealing with the issue of 'packing bright children to private schools'. Not to grammars. They are also the state school. :wink:
You are exasperating, tiffinboys. No one said he was talking about grammar schools. The article is about wasting money paying for education and he also mentions the issue of selection.

I am sure he thinks Tiffin is wonderful, as we all do, don't we everyone? Sigh.


I am positive it is superb and hope the £15k a year some of the parents have saved in school fees, is held back from their child's trust fund and donated to truly wonderful charitable causes.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Amber wrote:
I think the biggest shock in all that though is that once you factor out all the other variables, it actually isn't worth the money - as Toby Young points out in that article. I never thought I would find myself agreeing with that man, but I can't argue with this
Quote:
There's also some evidence that removing the brightest children from state schools has a negative effect on their peers who would otherwise be educated alongside them (particularly girls) – the so-called "peer effect".
or this
Quote:
But the solution is not to cream skim the most gifted children from the bottom 40 per cent of household incomes and pack them off to private schools. Rather, it's to improve state schools.
or this
Quote:
So it's official. Educating your child at a private school is a waste of money – a colossal waste of money if you send them to a boarding school.


I have always suspected that there could be 'loose' evidence that its not worth the money, in terms of the parameters he sets, or the research sets, which is all about future achievement. Of course, what else could they reliably measure? But my point stands (politely and not in messenger shooting mode!), this is a disappointment to those who strive to give their children a financial advantage in the workplace, or even an academic one, it does NOT in anyway measure (because how could they?) the difference in the experience of school those children have, whether they would have reached whatever levels they did, in the state sector, and most importantly, whether they are rounded and happy individuals because they had a school picked for them that was perfect. This of course is not necessarily private school! But speaking as a parent who has chosen an indie PURELY on its whole and holistic approach to educating our son, in MANY different ways, not just academic, this article has no effect on me whatsoever, except to think 'more fool them' about people who DO think you can buy academic advantage purely by sending a child to an indie.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Ah no indeed Yamin; there are lots of reasons for it and we have used the private sector too. My point in posting was mainly to say that Toby Young of all people has read a report carefully enough to critique it in this way and draw media attention to it. I had never even considered that people choosing independent schools would do so because of trying to get more highly paid jobs for their children. All this shows is the error of their thinking if that is their motivation.

My other reason for posting it was to show that even Mr Young is aware of a social justice angle and the need to improve all schools. This is a bit of a shock as when I have been in the same room as that man this side of his character has not always come across, shall we say?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Amber wrote:
Ah no indeed Yamin; there are lots of reasons for it and we have used the private sector too. My point in posting was mainly to say that Toby Young of all people has read a report carefully enough to critique it in this way and draw media attention to it. I had never even considered that people choosing independent schools would do so because of trying to get more highly paid jobs for their children. All this shows is the error of their thinking if that is their motivation.

My other reason for posting it was to show that even Mr Young is aware of a social justice angle and the need to improve all schools. This is a bit of a shock as when I have been in the same room as that man this side of his character has not always come across, shall we say?


An excellent point indeed.


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