Go to navigation
It is currently Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:37 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:15 pm
Posts: 138
Is anyone else a bit bemused by the 'Untutorable exams' rhetoric to apparently turn out to refer to testing maths & english.

It was my understanding that VR&NVR were specifically designed to select children based on aptitude rather than on previous education.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
Yes. It has never made sense to me. It depends on good teaching at home / school / tutor, beneficial "environment", and a dollop of underlying ability.

Most English grammar schools seem to want well taught, hard workers with an iq 120 plus and good English. I am not sure that a test of raw ability only would give them what they wanted. They are pretending to go along with a fair access argument in my view. If a clever kid turned up from abroad with poor English they're not going to get in to most English grammars. It is quite short-sighted.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:15 pm
Posts: 138
Quite!

Having had DC in both state & private primaries - I find that English is one area where the privates are head and shoulders ahead of the states.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:13 am
Posts: 452
Yes, the private schools are undoubtedly better geared for GS exams. Some of the private school do tons of VR, NVR, Creative writing etc at school while the state school is teaching the spellings for words ending in "tion". In Maths, state school seems to be closing their eyes for long multiplication, long division, advanced algebra, probability etc which do appear in the GS exams. No reason why private school children would pass the super-selective exams with more ease (please don't quote me for that :))

The best hope for state school children is to get additional help from parents, relatives & tutor.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 6696
Location: Herts
This is not the case in my local area. I deal with a wide range of local prep and state school students preparing for entrance exams and I find many preps are very strong in Maths but have yet to find a single prep who has the necessary skills in Comprehension and Creative Writing to get a good mark in our local English exams. The standard to get a good English mark in our local indys is much lower than in our state selectives. I know students who have won a scholarship at an indy after being in the lower 400's at the state selectives. DG


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:15 pm
Posts: 138
I mean about primary school experience.

Standard of English - IMO - depends on having had effective teaching. If you read back on the history of grammar schools - the whole point had been to select smart kids regardless of background.

In trying the eliminate the problem of Y5 cramming - they have put up a higher barrier for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds.

For better for worse - VR/NVR/Maths are pretty clear cut on how to prepare for. English is more of a dark art - you can't coach yourself with a mark scheme - you need to have had good guidance for several years previously.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:15 pm
Posts: 138
To put it another way: I think it is in principle possible to come to VR/NVR exam with no preparation and get 100%.

I would argue that there is no 10 year old who can independently get themselves to 100% on an English paper.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
I would agree with that principle. Maybe just nvr?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:15 pm
Posts: 138
I don't know how it should be done - but emphasising maths and English seems to fly in the face of the idea of trying to design a test which picks out intelligence rather than preparation.

I'm not surprised that first indications from CEM regions are that proportionally more prep school candidates are passing this year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:24 pm
Posts: 119
Location: West Essex
I think you are exactly right ess30.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016