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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:51 pm 
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Has anyone read the entire article? It sounds very interesting!
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/education ... 269612.ece


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:06 pm 
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What I want to see is the corresponding article that says, not "Grammars dominated by ethnic pupils seeking upward mobility" by means of the high prevalence of tutoring, but

"Grammars would like to be dominated by non-ethnic pupils seeking to retain the status quo or gain upward mobility" but their equally high or higher levels of tuition somehow don't manage to get all of them in as a cohort at the expense of the others. Shock, horror, to whom should the cheque be written for a feasible and face-saving alternative... :D

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:48 am 
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Despite being a subscriber I don't seem to be able to get into these articles which is frustrating.


It's not a surprise is it? It must depend partly on the location of the grammar schools but ethnic minorities have been performing well at school for years so this is how it would look if a top slice was taken off primary schools in some areas.

News seems to be rather "grammar focused" at the moment - presumably because this is turning into a big election issue (shame nothing better to focus on).

I am sure if analyses were done of results at ks2 and gcse by ethnicity the findings would be similar.

In general, if you work hard you get results.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:30 am 
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Location: Herts
Indeed. The percentage of ethnic students in selective school absolutely does reflect the high value placed on education within some ethnic communities. Some parents tell me that they have dinner parties and all sorts of things that are going to prevent their students from focusing on eleven plus. And some parents put getting into a good school number one on the agenda and are prepared to move house for it and everything else fits in after the top priority. Some students from miles away sign up and come every week and some students from the next street come from time to time when there is nothing that is more important in their lives going on.

Unsurprisingly this is reflected in the results. Locally many of the top set gifted and talented Level Six students don't do well every year. They are busy on lots of other things and assume that because they are on top table they will get a place. Parents are astounded when students they do not think are academic get a place and the top table students do not. But position in the school classroom means nothing if you do not prepare. As one of the parents who did focus said to me " They just don't want it badly enough."

In my experience the "ethnic" students dominate ten to one because they have made getting into a good school the most important thing in their lives and so it pays off for them. Anyone who went on the QE tours last month and looked into the classrooms would know that to be the case.

If you want to get into a North London Selective you have to work really hard and put that goal at the top of your list. Anyone can do it but it seems that some parents are prepared to really focus on it and some are not. HBS and QE are open to any male and female student in the country. This has resulted in both schools reflecting the different emphasis placed on secondary education in different communities. What a surprise! DG


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:16 am 
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This article makes me personally feel "good for them" when I see that there are families - ethnic minority or not - who value education and hard work. This is despite three aspects of it that also make me recoil (a) that pupils' chances are affected by how much their parents care or can do something about it (b) that this article might fuel racism amongst a few people who go "oh and now they're taking away our grammar school places too (c) that this article might give people the idea that people from "ethnic minorities" are 'different' or 'less British' than the rest.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:20 am 
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At the risk of bringing up and well-hashed question, and probably OT -

If you do all the necessary work to pass the exams to get into the school of choice - to the exclusion of actually learning - how well prepared are you to actually study at the level expected?

(Speaking as a parent whose child notes several classmates in the GS, who were coached to within an inch of their lives to get in, and then struggle desperately, since they can't cope.)

Making getting into the GS such a priority that actually interferes with the child's education, and putting them into a place where they are not ideally suited, at the expense of one who is suited, serves no one.

Not sure of the solution though...

(With no reference to gender or ethnicity.)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:40 am 
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My husband praises his mother for his education - it was always an education will get you out of here ( he grow up in a very poor arear with no job prospects). I see the same story for lots of Eastern Europeans who have come recently into the country they see an education as opening doors - getting them into better arears to live - these people work extremely hard to give their children the best opportunities - lots of them move into arears of good primary schools - are renting so can move more easily. The only disadvantage is the high cost of tutoring. In our primary we have a dedicated team of parent readers helping these children from reception class, by year six some of these are top table children. Some of the parents can hardly speak English with no reading skills.
I would encourage every parent who does not have a similar reading scheme in their primary to suggest it. We can all spare an hour !


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:21 am 
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Its ironic that this thread about access to opputunities is based on a link that most people can not read if they have not paid for the subscription. However a number of other newspapers have reported the same.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 54789.html

I think the issue is getting confused between ethnicity and migration because most migrants have a different ethnicity to the local populace.
It would be interesting to see a study to see if the difference gets eliminated as successive generations of migrants settle in and their circumstances become more like the indeigenous population.
While a childs chances may be unfairly boosted by a parents commitment and ability to pay and this is unfortunate but this ia an equality issue and nothing to do with ethnicity. Anything done to remove this is commendable.
Am immigrant child can not be compared with the entire local population.
A child of an immigrant has the advantage that he/she has the genes of (and lives with!) determined plucky gogetters/ survivors that make up a tiny percent of another country.
A child of an immigrant almost always has the disadvantage of less capital wealth (as compared to someone with an equivalent social capital and income) and this is the reason there is less security and more emphasis on ensuring that the child has an education to provide him a stable income.


Last edited by modernista on Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:26 am 
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This article completely ignores the fact that London schools get more funding that many areas.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:34 am 
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The inner london funding premium has been removed by the present goverment.
I would have assumed that the original study has accounted for this


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