The Times article about selective schools

[Daogroupie]

Interesting that Latymer and both the Tiffins are in the list but HBS, QE , DAO and the Watfords are not. DG

[Cloud]

Has anyone read the full article? What date was it published in hard copy?

It was in Sunday 16/11 paper, the main section. In the News Review section they had a list of top performing primary schools. I buy the times every Sunday, for 2.50 I think it is great value, I no longer buy a "daily paper". Each week in the News Review they do a question/answer section on education that I find very helpful.

[2Girlsmum]

Thanks! I'll have a look.

I agree that the over subscribed figures look wrong. HBS and QE from North London should be there, and Latymer has never been more than 10:1.

[kingsgen]

Not sure about how one defines "most selective" but here is a list of the most oversubscribed schools in the country. A bit out of date (jan 2013) but still interesting. Hope link works!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ed ... tions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have checked this list. Some of the schools are not high performing school. I know some of them very well. Some of them used to be known for the bad behaviour and truancy of their pupils.

[Rob Clark]

It would be impossible to just use "first choice" data as someone may have put a school down second choice and have no hope of a place at their first choice and their choice has just has much weight as someone who put it first (more so if their score is higher or they live closer depending on the admissions criteria) so they have to be included in the subscription data.

Quite so, mystery. And as we've seen right here on the Forum people are continually asking questions about how to fill in a CAF, and there have been numerous examples of parents putting down schools which they have no hope of getting into.

As for that table, it implies that Burnham Grammar is more oversubscribed than either of the Dr Challoner's schools. I'm sorry, but it just isn't – no disrespect to Burnham, but anybody who lives in south Bucks will tell you that. It appears to be a prime example of how stats can be misleading…

[Catseye]

most selective school is not the same as most over-subscribed school the measures are completely different.
I deliberately highlighted the word selective

partially selective school do not count in the selective issue since a significant % of their cohort fall into the normal distribution of ability

highly selelective schools have an average intake of between 1%-5% of the national cohort.

[Peridot]

Not sure about how one defines "most selective" but here is a list of the most oversubscribed schools in the country. A bit out of date (jan 2013) but still interesting. Hope link works!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ed ... tions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have checked this list. Some of the schools are not high performing school. I know some of them very well. Some of them used to be known for the bad behaviour and truancy of their pupils.

I never said these were high performing schools kingsgen. They are simply the most oversubscribed schools i.e. the schools listed the most frequently on CAF forms. What's interesting about the list is which schools are not on it as well as which schools are!

Don't forget it's from January 2013 so before last year's and this year's CAFs. And I'm not sure where the Telegraph actually got their figures from. I wonder if anyone has published the information from the 2013 CAFs.

Also I must apologise as I've realised I've confused this thread by adding another link. The original link at the top of the thread is to a Times article published this week. My link is to a Telegraph article from 2013.

[Peridot]

Interesting that Latymer and both the Tiffins are in the list but HBS, QE , DAO and the Watfords are not. DG

Only guessing but could that be because as these schools have such a reputation people only use their first choice for these schools in the mistaken belief that only first choice counts? Therefore they appear to be less oversubscribed than some of the others? Mind you that would also apply to the Tiffins and Latymer I'd have thought. Who knows? I only posted the link because I thought it was interesting and would add to the debate on this thread...

[salsa]

They often publish an abbreviated version during the week. This is from the Monday edition. I've typed it for you!
Grammars dominated by ethnic pupils seeking upward mobility

England’s grammar schools have significantly higher proportions of children from ethnic minorities than nearby comprehensive schools, figures show.

Four of them have 80 per cent or more pupils from minority groups. Head teachers said that the figures reflected the high value placed on education in some ethnic communities and a greater prevalence of private tutoring to pass entrance exams.

The figures, from school census data obtained after a freedom of information request by The Sunday Times, showed that minority intakes were higher in grammars than in other state schools in almost every one of the remaining 36 selective education authorities.

The highest proportions of ethnic groups were in Slough, Berkshire, with 92.3 per cent in Langley grammar, 91.2 per cent in Upton Court grammar and 87.4 per cent in Herschel grammar.

Henrietta Barnett School in north London, one of England's highest achievers, had 80 per cent; Tiffin Girls' School, in Kingston upon Thames, had 72.8 per cent; and Queen Mary's grammar in Walsall, West Midlands, had 72.7 per cent.

Tim Swain, headmaster at Queen Mary's said: "It is the value placed on education by these families. It is seen as the route to social mobility. The interest is taken from an early age with that aim in mind. Anecdotally, more ethnic minority parents use tutors."

The figures will fuel debate over whether grammar schools boost or, as many argue, hinder social mobility. Sir Michael Wilshaw, the Ofsted chief inspector said last year that selective schools were "stuffed full of middle-class kids".

Research by the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed that only 2.7 per cent of children at grammars were from poor families, compared with an average of 16 per cent, and grammar pupils were twice as likely to have attended a private preparatory school.

[tiffinboys]

I would have thought that with nearly 2000 competing for 93 places, HBS would top the list of over-subscribed. Also note that smaller the PAN, the school would look most over-subscribed e.g Al-Hijra had 18 application for each of its 60 places only. As PAN increases, the ratio will decrease.