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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:47 pm
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My oldest DD is taking her 11+ September 2015. It will be GL assessment multiple choice for English Maths and Verbal reasoning. The boys grammar in my city is considering changing to CEM. I wonder if the girls grammar will follow suit if they do? I have a younger DD so I'm curious at how the CEM is different. I know it is meant to be so a child can't be tutored for it? Is that really the case?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:31 am 
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Location: Essex
Seems odd that no-one with direct experience of CEM 11+ exams has responded to your query (more 'Fight Club' stuff, perhaps?). None of our three have taken the Durham tests, but one of the main differences seems to be that the papers are usually 'jumbled up', ie not one paper with just maths calculations and another with a comprehension passage and some grammar questions, a third just non-verbal etc. Also the sections with the paper may / will be separate so the candidates have to stop, move on to the next section and not return to previous sections to check or complete them. LAs such as Bexley have familiarisation papers on their websites, at least at exam registration time - note that the same paper is given as an example everywhere as no past or proper sample papers are published.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:49 am 
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DS took CEM - we did minimal prep and I have no idea what GL is??? Different exam board I'm guessing?
So no, not 'fight club' here, just ignorance! :lol:

JD


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:16 pm 
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I did reply & the internet swallowed my answer! The term "tutor-proof" has largely been invented by the newspapers. CEM don't claim it is tutor proof but more resistant to the effects of tutoring, although I'm not sure they have published any evidence of this. I think CEM is more unpredictable than the old GL type (particularly in areas like Bucks where previously it was just GL VR (no english, maths or NVR).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:01 pm 
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Location: Chelmsford and pleased
The main difference I have seen is greater variety and more 3D. It was slightly farcical with 21 types that could be utterly trained for. Even worse with the multiple choice that gave you the answer.

Regarding tutoring, more rather than less is required, sadly. So those children without a tutor are at an even greater disadvantage.

In 3 group sessions my group has got significantly better at visualising nets, but there is a long way to go.

Timing is another element, the CEM timings give little time for thought. Results seem less predictable too.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:05 pm 
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I think one of the reasons for not getting many replies may have to do with the fact that CEM does not publish anything and the exam may/may not change every year. CEM does not reveal any information apart from the familiarisation sheets mentioned above.
Giving out any information about this year's test re.VR, NVR or Maths would involve giving out contents of the exam and there are plenty of late sitters yet to sit the same exam. So, it would be unfair to all the DCs who sat earlier.
To answer your question about tutoring all the DCs (that I know) who passed were tutored. Some of them were from prep schools with tutoring from Year3 onwards.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:11 am 
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The opening question gets harder to answer as time goes by. Different customers have different types of exam from c e m and this is now true of c e m.

There are some features which appear to be signatures of c e m but there is not necessarily a reason why they should remain unique to c e m..

Kent procured a test from g l assessment this year which was different from other gl entrance tests nationwide in some ways. E.g. It included maths, vr, nvr, spatial reasoning and English. The maths gave less than one minute per question whereas the gl practice papers on sale in the shops are supposed to be timed at 1 minute per question.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:32 pm 
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I think CEM differs mostly in the number of question types, reduced time in which to answer and, in our area, the inclusion of a comprehension exercise. I definitely agree with the former post that it is still tutorable but that tutoring needs to be more intensive to cover all the different question types.

However, we had been tutoring since year 3 and slowly building up to GL since the end of year 4 but it was only six months before the test that word spread that the school had changed exam board. Even our tutor seemed to be in the dark about it. We were already about of a third of the way through the BOFA online tests (which are actually GL focused but did help on the day) and DS1 complete them before test day. His tutor started sending small pieces of literacy work home including comp exercises, clozes (fill in the missing words) synonyms, antonyms, etc. As you are currently tested on English some of this may be familiar to you but it was a shock to us how much extra work there was to get through! We increased the tutor to two sessions a week to dedicate a whole lesson to practicing the literacy elements (bizarrely, in my opinion, referred to as VR) On the day we were very nervous but I think the "tutor proof" hype had gotten into our heads.

I suppose what I am trying to convey is that the short answer to the original post would be that it is different and it is a lot more intense but as long as you are well prepared for GL the change to CEM is not as scary as it seems.

Hope that helps


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:01 pm 
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A comprehension is included in the GL English which has been added in to the Kent test this year. And the maths was speeded up so the difference between GL and CEM has narrowed considerably. Also, as there was much less time than usual for the "verbal reasoning" (half the time as the whole test now takes place on one day rather than two) there weren't many of the GL verbal question types - the ones they picked concentrated more on word meanings. So the gap between the skills being tested in CEM and GL were much narrower. It's up to the purchaser to get these test providers to tailor things to their requirements via the procurement process. In the Kent 2014 test procurement it would seem that GL must have been able to offer something that measured up better than CEM according to the criteria used by Kent in the tender evaluation exercise.

I would say that although the maths was speeded up this did not change things much really. In the past about 25 correct answers needed to be hammered out in 60 mins to pass the Kent maths. This year about 11 correct answers needed to be hammered out in 25 minutes in order to pass. So the rate of production of correct answers was about the same.

Do you get the CEM results split down into subject so that you can see this kind of detail or not?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:47 pm
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OCD87 wrote:
I think CEM differs mostly in the number of question types, reduced time in which to answer and, in our area, the inclusion of a comprehension exercise. I definitely agree with the former post that it is still tutorable but that tutoring needs to be more intensive to cover all the different question types.

However, we had been tutoring since year 3 and slowly building up to GL since the end of year 4 but it was only six months before the test that word spread that the school had changed exam board. Even our tutor seemed to be in the dark about it. We were already about of a third of the way through the BOFA online tests (which are actually GL focused but did help on the day) and DS1 complete them before test day. His tutor started sending small pieces of literacy work home including comp exercises, clozes (fill in the missing words) synonyms, antonyms, etc. As you are currently tested on English some of this may be familiar to you but it was a shock to us how much extra work there was to get through! We increased the tutor to two sessions a week to dedicate a whole lesson to practicing the literacy elements (bizarrely, in my opinion, referred to as VR) On the day we were very nervous but I think the "tutor proof" hype had gotten into our heads.

I suppose what I am trying to convey is that the short answer to the original post would be that it is different and it is a lot more intense but as long as you are well prepared for GL the change to CEM is not as scary as it seems.

Hope that helps


Thank you that had helped, we are learning what the GL papers are like back to front with older DD right now and she is being sent stuff home from tutor so I get to see it all. Glad to know it's not a million years away from CEM, I believe it will be CEM by the time younger DD sits it and I like to be prepared. :D


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