Starting to think about 11+
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I understand Essex Mum 18, I just wanted it to make it clear that Bond are not compatible to Nfer.
Personally I tell all my parents that while they are on my waiting list, they should concentrate on the the 4 maths operations, the answer to 8 x 7 immediately, not 10 seconds later. In addition reading out loud, talking about vocabulary and the story line.
If you start too early with 11 plus work, it becomes overkill, leaving children bored and blase leading to silly mistakes.
Patricia
Personally I tell all my parents that while they are on my waiting list, they should concentrate on the the 4 maths operations, the answer to 8 x 7 immediately, not 10 seconds later. In addition reading out loud, talking about vocabulary and the story line.
If you start too early with 11 plus work, it becomes overkill, leaving children bored and blase leading to silly mistakes.
Patricia
Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice. Like Essex Mun 18 says, I am only going to use the Bond papers as an introduction to VR and NVR as they are age targeted. Unfortunately, the Nfer only publish 11+ practice papers which would be too challenging for my son at this stage.
Does anyone know if any of the publishers that Patricia mentioned, which are closer to the Nfer papers, are age targeted. Perhaps I should just concentrate on quick fire mental maths, vocabulary and reading for now. I don't feel that going straight to the Nfer 11+ practice papers is a viable option given that my son is in Year 4. Unless anyone with previous experience recommends that I do this.
Patricia, can you explain the 15/21 that you mentioned please? I am totally new to the language surrounding the 11+. I have read many posts on this forum and am trying to get up to speed, but have not as I remember come across this terminology or concept yet.
I just love this site/forum. Everyone is just so helpful and well-meaning. Thanks again.
Does anyone know if any of the publishers that Patricia mentioned, which are closer to the Nfer papers, are age targeted. Perhaps I should just concentrate on quick fire mental maths, vocabulary and reading for now. I don't feel that going straight to the Nfer 11+ practice papers is a viable option given that my son is in Year 4. Unless anyone with previous experience recommends that I do this.
Patricia, can you explain the 15/21 that you mentioned please? I am totally new to the language surrounding the 11+. I have read many posts on this forum and am trying to get up to speed, but have not as I remember come across this terminology or concept yet.
I just love this site/forum. Everyone is just so helpful and well-meaning. Thanks again.
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essex-mum18
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:09 am
Hi, kmum
To my knowledge, the Essex 11+ exam does not include NVR (My son just did his 11+ in Nov).
Having said that, please keep a close eye on the CSSE website to update any information or new change. For example in 2007 Nov, the VR has been changed into MC format instead of the standard format.
Sound mental arithematics , time tables skills etc plus good English vocabulary are very important. These skills will certainly provide geat help for doing VR for the future.
You are absolutely right that it is far too early to let you son to do the 11+ papers but gentle introduction of VR skills can be fun at this stage, in my opinion.
There are a lot of relevant informations in the Essex region in this forum as well. Love this 11+ forum!!
Essexmun18
To my knowledge, the Essex 11+ exam does not include NVR (My son just did his 11+ in Nov).
Having said that, please keep a close eye on the CSSE website to update any information or new change. For example in 2007 Nov, the VR has been changed into MC format instead of the standard format.
Sound mental arithematics , time tables skills etc plus good English vocabulary are very important. These skills will certainly provide geat help for doing VR for the future.
You are absolutely right that it is far too early to let you son to do the 11+ papers but gentle introduction of VR skills can be fun at this stage, in my opinion.
There are a lot of relevant informations in the Essex region in this forum as well. Love this 11+ forum!!
Essexmun18
Dear KMum
The following information is with regard to NFER VR...
Some regions use 15 types of questions [as seen in the NFER packs found in the shops and this website] other regions [more and more] use 21 types. The 21 types can be identified by IPS, 15 types would be minus types HIKNOS. ALternatively you can look at The Tutors Demo CD, types 16 - 21 are equivalent to HIKNOS
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/cd/the ... lume-1.php
IPS have a series of questions [21 types] that are aimed at a slighly younger age group.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/books/ ... %3D8%23b87
I would personally steer clear of Bond, even for the younger age group, you will be introducing 33 types that are not relevant. Teaching VR at an early age, I believe becomes overkill. As I said above, I would concentrate on the 4 maths operations and increasing vocabulary.
I am A tutor in Bucks, follows a regime for our 11 plus, which is NFER VR Multiple Choice, 21 types.... towards the bottom are some links for vocabulary, including compound word games.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... php?t=4782
My reservations re Bond and starting early are only directed at VR, perhaps you could post in the NVR section for some advice.
Patricia
The following information is with regard to NFER VR...
Some regions use 15 types of questions [as seen in the NFER packs found in the shops and this website] other regions [more and more] use 21 types. The 21 types can be identified by IPS, 15 types would be minus types HIKNOS. ALternatively you can look at The Tutors Demo CD, types 16 - 21 are equivalent to HIKNOS
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/cd/the ... lume-1.php
IPS have a series of questions [21 types] that are aimed at a slighly younger age group.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/books/ ... %3D8%23b87
I would personally steer clear of Bond, even for the younger age group, you will be introducing 33 types that are not relevant. Teaching VR at an early age, I believe becomes overkill. As I said above, I would concentrate on the 4 maths operations and increasing vocabulary.
I am A tutor in Bucks, follows a regime for our 11 plus, which is NFER VR Multiple Choice, 21 types.... towards the bottom are some links for vocabulary, including compound word games.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... php?t=4782
My reservations re Bond and starting early are only directed at VR, perhaps you could post in the NVR section for some advice.
Patricia
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fm
fm
I would also agree that starting VR too early is a bad idea. Yes, it might do some good for the rare breed of child who can't do enough work! Normally, however, starting on year 4 usually result in the child peaking 6 months early and then becoming increasingly demotivated due to boredom.
I also agree Bond is fairly irrelevent for NFER based exams.
In Birmingham children do the KE exam (a different breed of 11+ exam altogether which has no traditional verbal reasoning whatsoever) and Sutton Coldfield (purely NFER based). Most parents don't want me wasting much time on Sutton so I do the minimum verbal reasoning needed. This usually entails 5 minutes each session from Christmas and 5 minutes homework from the IPS workbook. Then, from September, up to 5 hours tuition session on AFN papers, a similar amount of time spent on homework, followed by formal testing in the 4 NFER papers. This year all my pupils barring one were scoring 75+ by the last paper with this technique and two of them 81, more than sufficient to pass the exam.
At the same time I had another pupil who'd been started by parents on Bond Verbal Reasoning from a fairly young age and by the time I had her, late year 4, she had already finished Bond 10-11. Despite all this and despite being one of the brightest( good maths skills, vocab etc.) she still can't manage more than 70 out of 85. Part of it, I'm sure, is her having developed bad techniques early on. But most of it, I suspect, is sheer boredom with verbal reasoning which none of the others displayed because they had crash courses in it.
So, beware overpractice! A bright (but not necessarily genius child) can be brought up to speed without resorting to endless paper-sitting or early prep.
On Year 4 the time is best spent on reading, more reading, more reading after that plus regular mental arithmetic, preferably made fun!
I also agree Bond is fairly irrelevent for NFER based exams.
In Birmingham children do the KE exam (a different breed of 11+ exam altogether which has no traditional verbal reasoning whatsoever) and Sutton Coldfield (purely NFER based). Most parents don't want me wasting much time on Sutton so I do the minimum verbal reasoning needed. This usually entails 5 minutes each session from Christmas and 5 minutes homework from the IPS workbook. Then, from September, up to 5 hours tuition session on AFN papers, a similar amount of time spent on homework, followed by formal testing in the 4 NFER papers. This year all my pupils barring one were scoring 75+ by the last paper with this technique and two of them 81, more than sufficient to pass the exam.
At the same time I had another pupil who'd been started by parents on Bond Verbal Reasoning from a fairly young age and by the time I had her, late year 4, she had already finished Bond 10-11. Despite all this and despite being one of the brightest( good maths skills, vocab etc.) she still can't manage more than 70 out of 85. Part of it, I'm sure, is her having developed bad techniques early on. But most of it, I suspect, is sheer boredom with verbal reasoning which none of the others displayed because they had crash courses in it.
So, beware overpractice! A bright (but not necessarily genius child) can be brought up to speed without resorting to endless paper-sitting or early prep.
On Year 4 the time is best spent on reading, more reading, more reading after that plus regular mental arithmetic, preferably made fun!
You've got me worried now! My middle child is 8 and in Year 3. He has been doing the Bond VR exercises book for ages 8-9. I only got it for him because his elder brother is currently doing some study for the 11 plus, and he said he wanted some too. I never suggest doing any, but if his brother is working, he often asks to do some work with his book. He is always moaning about how uninspiring school is, but he seems to really enjoy the challenge of beating his previous scores with the VR. He has nearly finished the book and his enthusiasm is undiminished (a bit nerdy of him, but on balance I thought it was something to be encouraged). I was thinking about getting him the next one up, but maybe it is not such a good idea. What do you think?
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essex-mum18
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:09 am
I do appreciate that everyone has different views on how early they should start prepare/ coach/ tutor their child for the 11+ exam.
Personally, I am in favour of early introduction of new skill to children providing the methods used are appropriate. It can be VR skills, new language skills etc as long as the child is happy and capable.
There are lots of different opinions re: WHEN TO START...under the 11 PLUS TUTORS. Very interesting to read.
Kind Regards
Essexmum18
Personally, I am in favour of early introduction of new skill to children providing the methods used are appropriate. It can be VR skills, new language skills etc as long as the child is happy and capable.
There are lots of different opinions re: WHEN TO START...under the 11 PLUS TUTORS. Very interesting to read.
Kind Regards
Essexmum18