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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:04 pm 
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Having read posts on here about head teachers and teachers giving advice re 11+ I thought I'd see if anyone had a primary school like ours - at the parents evening after the CATs test in October, they are not allowed to give any guidance re secondary schools, you are just told to go by the CAT scores, not easyy whn you don't know what thy mean. They will not tell you if they expect your child to pass and they won't say whether or not they will appeal if your child fails.

So helpful :roll:

I assumed all schools were like this, but clearly not.

Maybe I should name and shame :lol: :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:13 pm 
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Location: East Kent
At my children's primary school the year 6 parents evening was at a different time to the other classes and was specifically about secondary selection. I don;t remember them doing CAT tests then, but my children were never very communicative when it came to school matters.

I wonder if ithas a lot to do with the headteachers view of selective schools.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Location: Berkshire
Whilst speaking to a primary teacher on this very subject, she said it was not that they were trying to be unhelpful, but just that they did not know how the secondary process worked and, so could not comment.
As most 11+ selection is done via VR and/or NVR tests, and bear no relation to tests sat at school, teachers are not in a position to comment. Even when my children sat some CAT's tests in yr4 they were given them blind, and no guidance was provided on how to answer this style of question.

I got lucky, last yr, when I spoke my son's yr5 maths teacher and actually got a response. Having two daughters herself, she did have some knowledge. What she advised was to prepare for the tests or get a tutor. :wink:

But I do agree, they will not tell you where in the current cohort your child is.
You get this information, from parents of your childrens friends :shock: (Well thats how I did :roll:)
Now DS1 is in yr6, he comes home and says 'Mum, I got a ?b in the Maths paper today, and so did x,y, and z'. With the prep for run up to SATS, the teachers talk in nothing but SATs levels apparently.......... Go figure :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:39 pm 
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Hi , both my children's primary schools were very unhelpful when it came to transfer to secondary education. My daughter's primary school ( she is in Y6 now) did not even mention any choice! we were given a L. A. handout and told (via my daughter) that we should attend the open evening at the comp. At the parent's evening a few weeks later, we were asked if we had attended, and when we said we didn't,as she would not be going there anyway, it was met with a blank stare! The teacher said "well it's more or less impossible to get into anywhere else isn't it? I said that I had been looking at all the options for a long time,(many years in fact!)and the comp was not one of them! It is the total lack of interest in the children's future that really gets to me, My daughter represented the school in a heptathlan last summer, all the other schools had a teacher with them for all or part of the weekend, except ours!She did well,came 4th out of all the children from 12 local schools, not a mention was made at school! I asked her to get her marks from the teacher (they send them direct to the school)She put the marks on a post-it note,and sent it home!!This total lack of interest will not be missed in July when she leaves.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Hi , both my children's primary schools were very unhelpful when it came to transfer to secondary education. My daughter's primary school ( she is in Y6 now) did not even mention any choice! we were given a L. A. handout and told (via my daughter) that we should attend the open evening at the comp. At the parent's evening a few weeks later, we were asked if we had attended, and when we said we didn't,as she would not be going there anyway, it was met with a blank stare! The teacher said "well it's more or less impossible to get into anywhere else isn't it? I said that I had been looking at all the options for a long time,(many years in fact!)and the comp was not one of them! It is the total lack of interest in the children's future that really gets to me, My daughter represented the school in a heptathlan last summer, all the other schools had a teacher with them for all or part of the weekend, except ours!She did well,came 4th out of all the children from 12 local schools, not a mention was made at school! I asked her to get her marks from the teacher (they send them direct to the school)She put the marks on a post-it note,and sent it home!!This total lack of interest will not be missed in July when she leaves.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:39 pm
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Bewildered wrote:
Whilst speaking to a primary teacher on this very subject, she said it was not that they were trying to be unhelpful, but just that they did not know how the secondary process worked and, so could not comment.As most 11+ selection is done via VR and/or NVR tests, and bear no relation to tests sat at school, teachers are not in a position to comment. Even when my children sat some CAT's tests in yr4 they were given them blind, and no guidance was provided on how to answer this style of question.

I got lucky, last yr, when I spoke my son's yr5 maths teacher and actually got a response. Having two daughters herself, she did have some knowledge. What she advised was to prepare for the tests or get a tutor. :wink:

But I do agree, they will not tell you where in the current cohort your child is.
You get this information, from parents of your childrens friends :shock: (Well thats how I did :roll:)
Now DS1 is in yr6, he comes home and says 'Mum, I got a ?b in the Maths paper today, and so did x,y, and z'. With the prep for run up to SATS, the teachers talk in nothing but SATs levels apparently.......... Go figure :shock:


Hi Bewildered

That's a bit of a weak excuse, isn' it? Primary teachers not knowing how the secondary system works? Maybe they should become members on here and learn and thing or two, like the parents!

Anywya, thanks for all the replies, I'm glad/sad to see that other schools are as unhelpful.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:27 pm 
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Location: Berkshire
denis denis wrote:
Hi Bewildered
That's a bit of a weak excuse, isn' it? Primary teachers not knowing how the secondary system works? Maybe they should become members on here and learn and thing or two, like the parents!


Actually in her defence she was a NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher). Which made me think that unless teachers have children, having gone through or going through the secondary process, I can well understand why some teachers wouldn't have any idea, as it is of little interest to them.

Still very annoying that majority won't advise if they think your child is smart enough to go for the 11+. Here they are fully aware of cohorts, and experience (unless an NQT) would surely give them a deeper insight into ability!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am 
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Bewildered wrote:
denis denis wrote:
Hi Bewildered
That's a bit of a weak excuse, isn' it? Primary teachers not knowing how the secondary system works? Maybe they should become members on here and learn and thing or two, like the parents!


Actually in her defence she was a NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher). Which made me think that unless teachers have children, having gone through or going through the secondary process, I can well understand why some teachers wouldn't have any idea, as it is of little interest to them.

Still very annoying that majority won't advise if they think your child is smart enough to go for the 11+. Here they are fully aware of cohorts, and experience (unless an NQT) would surely give them a deeper insight into ability!


Hmm ... I still think an NQT should make it her business to know how the system works if she is teaching year 5/6 children. It's like going to a bank and them telling you their mortgage broker can't actually advise on mortgages because he's new and he hasn't bought his own house yet!

Our yr 6 teachers are all very experienced yet still won't give anything away. I find it ridiculous and so unhelpful.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:42 am
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Location: South Warwickshire
Quote:
It's like going to a bank and them telling you their mortgage broker can't actually advise on mortgages because he's new and he hasn't bought his own house yet!


I'm not sure that is fair. A mortgage broker is paid to advise on mortgages and it is in their job description. I don't know much about education policy and what teachers' instructions are in this area, but I doubt whether they are told to do any 11+ practice, advice or assessment. On the other hand, they can quite easily have their careers wrecked by a string of poor SATs results, so no wonder they focus more on those.

I assume OFSTED reports don't mention how many pupils from the school went on to Grammar. If they did, and school's assessments included this criterion, then you would get a lot more help from the teachers. The system is geared against giving you what you want, so I don't think it is right to blame the teachers.[/quote]


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 Post subject: Mel x
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:32 pm
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Hello everyone

My children previous primary school( we moved so changed schools recently) were pretty good on advising about the 11+. We actually had a whole Parents evening dedicated to explaining the process in full. This really helped. My son did the test whilst at that school and along wth other pupils was offered early morning tuition for two weeks before the tests. The children at the school are all given a CATS test in the Feb of year 5 and the results shared with parents at the evening when the school advises as to what type of mark would of been expected for them, to recommend the child takes the test.

The school even had the Head of a Grammar school coming to explain Admissions policy for thier school.

My DD will take the test this year and as yet don't know whether the new school will be as informative but I am getting the feeling from other parents that they won't be. Thank goodness I am more informed and have got this great wealth of advice available on here.

It is so strange as I found that its not just the teachers who don't wish to discuss it's people like all of us. This forum is the only place where I feel totally ok about asking for advice and discussing it in general and really openly.
I don't know why the subject of 11+ should be as taboo maybe if more parents discussed it more openly in the playground etc and asked for more advice from the teachers, they would feel obliged to advise them.

Mel


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