11 Plus Exams Forum

Just coming to the end of Yr4, my wife thinks our DD is underperforming in maths (relative to where she needs to be to get into a "good" school) and I'd like to test this hypothesis with some kind of test.
What tests can anyone recommend I buy?

She's very good indeed at the NVR type tests, so it's very much maths that we (or at least my wife - I'm not so sure) regards as the thing most in question.
Also, any recommendations for Tutors in the Barnet area much appreciated. Schools under consideration are Latymer, Habs, NLCS, Henrietta Barnett, St Albans, Channing, Dame Alice Owen.

Thanks!

Hi
Not familiar with the selective tests in your area but you could ask the current school if your daughter has taken/ about to take the year 4 sats - all State schools now do this.
My experience would be that she should be level 4 in year 4 to be on track for selective place. Most able children will acheive level 5 in year 5.
You can purchase eg. Letts sample tests for different year groups that give guide to NC levels.
Hope you get more specific help from those in your area - maybe you could try posting in your regional area?
KB

Sorry to disagree but level five is above the expected level you would expect in Year 6 so a level 4 in year 5 would be on track

Mel

While I don't believe QCA/Sats levels directly relate to grammar school entrance, my own experience as a tutor has been that all my successful candidates have been on at least a 5c at the end of year 5; by that stage they would have been tutored for six months and you would expect a reasonably intelligent child to manage this level and beyond.
In fact, some of the year 4 children I am due to start next November are on 4b/4c now.
That said, maths is much more repairable than English and in a shorter time span so. I have tutored a child who arrived at the end of year 4 with a 2A who eventually went on to be one of my better mathematicians as well as winning a grammar school place.
In our local grammar school exam, you can only get away with level 4 maths if you are absolutely brilliant at English to compensate.

Didn't mean to be controversial
Speaking only from local (Essex) area - don't know of any children getting selective places that were not at level 5 (or very close to) at year 5 - our test is in the November of year 6.
Agree NC levels not a pefect guide but they do give some indication if you are starting to think about 11+.

But please remember that curriculum levels are only a rough guide to 11+ potential. My eldest didn't achieve any level 5s at the end of year 5 (4A in maths, yet he's in the top maths set at his grammar and his maths teacher is very pleased with him.) He also got a very high mark in the 11+ (much higher than my second child who was a level 5 in everything at the end of year 5).

Mel X wrote:Sorry to disagree but level five is above the expected level you would expect in Year 6 so a level 4 in year 5 would be on track
Mel

Seconded. Level 5s in Yr 5 definitely not required.

Being good at NVR is a very good indicator of ability...

Incidentally has your DD ever done CATs? I think these are a very interesting predictor.

Regards
SVE

Dear FM,

I read these forums because I am tutoring my YR5 son. However, i came across your reply on a student you once had that was a level 2A in maths. I have a year 3 daughter and I have recently noticed that her maths is not up to sctratch. I was wondering if you could suggest any books / web sites that would help her. I know that there are loads of books etc that can be bought in book shops but most of the ones I have been looking at aren't really what I am after.
Thanks.

Level 5 in year 5 is not at all essential for 11+ success - I think this forum sometimes gives a slightly skewed view of reality!


For example, of the 11 children who passed the 11+ from my dd's school, there was only 1 level 5 at in year 5 - and she had been level 5 since year 3 (g and t in maths!) My dd got a level 4 at the end of year 6 (yes, year 6 - that's not a typo) and is doing very well at grammar school.

Please don't be alarmed by all the very high achievers you read about on here - there are lots of "normally" clever children at grammar school too!

I certainly was not trying to be alarmist!
I think maybe there are differences across the country regarding the proportion of selective places & therefore the level of performance required to gain a place. I believe that the Colchester GS are some of the 'hardest' to get into?
I do not know of any child with level 4 in year 6 who got a GS place.(Obviously only personal experience!)
I absolutely agree that NC maths and 11+ maths are not the same but having worked in local schools for many years there does seem to be a correlation betwen high NC levels in maths & 11+ success in this locality at least.
No intention of putting anyone off trying for 11+ - just suggesting a place to start getting an idea of a child's current performance.

There is a danger that parents hear the Government targets of level 4 in year 6 and think this is OK. If you have a bright child then as a parent you should make sure that the school is not settling for this but encouraging the child to aim higher. Not put under pressure but given the opportunity to reach their potential.