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 Post subject: The Perferences Game
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:34 pm
Posts: 548
Hello everyone.

Can I touch on a topic which is really bothering me?

I live in an area that has no loal grammar schools - the closest being Tiffins and the Slough Consortium. Each school states I put them down as first preference, and that if not, we have NO chance of getting in...

How true is this?

We are also considering moving to Bucks so we can apply for the 12+ there, and as we have two more sons, we'd rather be in an area which has many grammar schools in the locality.

Bucks schools also say that we have to put them down as first preference or we wont get it - yet Bucks Council has to give all children who pass their 11+ a grammar place. Am I right?

They way my mind is working - if each school gives all their places to first preference candidates... then what happens to the children who pss the 11+, but dont get in? If they are guaranteed a grammar place, and each school fills up all their places, where do these extra places come from?

I have a friend who wanted his son to go to Royal Grammar School.

He put Dr Challoners as 1st choice, knowing full well it was further from his house than Royal Grammar, yet he knew Royal Grammar was a better school, and closer to his house.

So what happens - Dr C doesnt give him his place of !st preference, as he is too far, and so he gets into his 2nd preferred school - Royal Grammar, which he wanted to get into anyway.

How does one play the preferences game!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:56 pm
Posts: 81
As far as I know - please someone correct me if I'm wrong - but not all children who pass the eleven plus will get a place. There is no guarantee at all.

This is the case for Tonbridge Wells. :(


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 Post subject: Re: The Perferences Game
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Sara

I can't comment on Tiffin or the Slough consortium, but I can help you on Bucks.

JaysDarlin wrote:
We are also considering moving to Bucks so we can apply for the 12+ there, and as we have two more sons, we'd rather be in an area which has many grammar schools in the locality.


Please make sure that you read my "Sticky" on Bucks about the 12+/13+ - it is a dangerous game, because there are rarely places at the most popular grammars for 12+ candidates, no matter how close to the school you live.

Quote:
Bucks schools also say that we have to put them down as first preference or we wont get it - yet Bucks Council has to give all children who pass their 11+ a grammar place. Am I right?


It used to be the case that schools knew where you had placed them in your preferences, but it isn't any longer. The schools have no idea where they are on your list.

Yes, you are right that Bucks have to offer a GS place to every child who passes the 11+. Luckily there are enough places to go round at present. I don't think there has been a time in recent years when there were more passes than places.

Quote:
I have a friend who wanted his son to go to Royal Grammar School.

He put Dr Challoners as 1st choice, knowing full well it was further from his house than Royal Grammar, yet he knew Royal Grammar was a better school, and closer to his house.

So what happens - Dr C doesnt give him his place of !st preference, as he is too far, and so he gets into his 2nd preferred school - Royal Grammar, which he wanted to get into anyway.


If this was under the current system, your friend simply wasted a preference! They must have been out of catchment for DCGS anyway, because otherwise they would have been allocated a place. Only a very few people from the very south of the County have a problem getting catchment places at DCGS.

Quote:
How does one play the preferences game!


In Bucks you must always put your first preference first, even if you have very little chance of being allocated it. Your second, or even third, preference should always be a school that you will definitely be offered (either on catchment or distance) and will be happy to accept.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject: Re: The Perferences Game
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:26 am
Posts: 1326
Location: Watford, Herts
JaysDarlin wrote:
Each school states I put them down as first preference, and that if not, we have NO chance of getting in...

Many schools say or imply this, but they are bluffing: it's now illegal for schools to place such a condition, and as Sally-Anne says, they won't be given the preference information. All they will know is that you named them somewhere in your list.
JaysDarlin wrote:
I have a friend who wanted his son to go to Royal Grammar School.

He put Dr Challoners as 1st choice, knowing full well it was further from his house than Royal Grammar, yet he knew Royal Grammar was a better school, and closer to his house.

So what happens - Dr C doesnt give him his place of 1st preference, as he is too far, and so he gets into his 2nd preferred school - Royal Grammar, which he wanted to get into anyway.

You really don't want to do this: the LEA will assume that you mean what you say when you give your preferences. At best you've wasted a preference. At worst you'll be allocated a school you were less keen on when your preferred school was prepared to offer you a place.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 pm
Posts: 490
Location: kent
Never trust admissions advice from schools - even the one you want to get into. Many schools are out of date, uninformed, confused themselves, or deliberately bluffing for several different reasons.

For the correct information you need the LEA school admissions booklet for the relevant year, the most up date approved admissions policy for the school(s) concerned, and the most up to date admissions code of practice.

Etienne on this forum is a very trustworthy source of information too.

According to the law, it should no longer affect your chances of getting into a school at either primary or secondary level whether you put it first second third (or sixth even in those areas with 6 choices).

So you should always put your schools in your true order of preference as if there is space for you child at all three schools, it is the first choice that you will be offered. So if you put your most preferred school second you will have wasted your chances of getting there.

There is still some judgement to be made about whether to put the school you really want onto the CAF at all. If there is zero chance of you getting in during the normal process, and there are many people who live closer than you who will be turned down and go onto the waiting list, I would suggest that you might choose not to put such a school down on the form at all, and put three others down that you would not mind having. Then, when the waiting list opens up to everyone (not just the ones that put it on the CAF), go onto that school waiting list, and appeal straight away.

This way you have broadened your options. As a rider, I would not do this if you are told that (and you need to do some research on this one) whether for this particular school appeals for people who put the school down on the CAF are done earlier and already decided, before appeals are held for those who did not put the school down on their CAF.

Good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 48
Location: T Wells, KENT
Hi mum007

If you live in Tunbridge Wells and your DS passes and you put TWGSB on your SCAF you will get a place. Those that live in Tonbridge and Sevenoaks should also get in but those that live further away or in the wrong direction ( like lamberhust) probably won't get in.

If you have any worries I would phone the KCC LEA the number is in the secondary school book that came home with the SCAF and they are very helpful re catchment ect.

I hope this has helped.

Love Wardie x


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 48
Location: T Wells, KENT
Hi mum007

If you live in Tunbridge Wells and your DS passes and you put TWGSB on your SCAF you will get a place. Those that live in Tonbridge and Sevenoaks should also get in but those that live further away or in the wrong direction ( like lamberhust) probably won't get in.

If you have any worries I would phone the KCC LEA the number is in the secondary school book that came home with the SCAF and they are very helpful re catchment ect.

I hope this has helped.

Love Wardie x


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:34 pm
Posts: 548
This is really very interesting. I did the same thing at University. Applied through UCAS and got places for a completely different course, and then went to another University and got into the course of my choice (I had changed my mind along the way). Please keep all the info coming, I feel like changing my name to Perplexed, too! :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 114
Location: Kent
Mum 007, I don't know of anyone in Kent who has passed the 11+ and not been allocated a GS. It may not initially be the GS of choice, (indeed it may be in Sittingbourne or Ashford! - yes, really!) but as the reallocations and waiting list progress, people seem to end up where they want to be ( excluding those who needed a higher mark, but even they are in a GS.) Very distant allocations seem to be due to problems with order of schools on the CAF (or SCAF now). I also know of quite a few who didn't pass the 11+ who are now in GS following appeals.
From what I understand, KCC allow the correct no. of children to pass the 11+ and HT appeal by tweaking the pass mark in order to balance the number of places available.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm
Posts: 1647
Location: berkshire
Replied on the Berks thread........

Did the consortium schools actually tell you that they need to be first pref or was it from another source?


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