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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:22 am 
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Hello all,
People reading my posts may be forgiven for thinking I am delusional about the ability of my children. All three of them have failed the eleven plus. Here I am banging on about how they should be at Grammars etc, when, it must seem to outside observers that they clearly are not clever enough. However, we successfully appealed for our first child, who missed by 2 points, fully expecting to have to give him lots of support. In fact, he has consistently performed in the top three pupils in his class overall, and for German, Geography and History is in the top three or four pupils in the year group. He is on a gifted and talented programme and is taking GCSE French after school, taking the exam at the end of Year 10.
Those of you who followed the forum last year will know of my anguish relating to DC2 - who, as GS teachers ourselves, we know is the most academic of all three of our kids, and yet who failed by 19 marks. Again, you may think we've overestimated her ability, and yet at the end of Y6 she received a certificate for achieving the highest SATs scores in her primary school and in Y7 is one of the top performers in her year group across the board ( selective independent - she passed their 11+)
So, now going through it for the 3rd time (DC3 failed by 5 marks) does anyone know of any research relating to hereditary/familial reasons why children may not pass these tests? None of them are good at NVR, and yet they have all demonstrated problem solving ability, - being on school councils, taking decisions relating to forward movement of the school, - level 5s in Maths (DS got Level 8 in recent KS3 Maths SATs.)

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Will also post on appeals forum
Bouga


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:58 am 
As a tutor and a parent, I find 11plus exams and Sats levels are two different ball games.
I have pupils who perform very well, day to day, in the classroom situation whose parents (understandably) expect them to pass the 11 plus because of this, but the moment you put non-verbal into the mix all bets are off.
Specifically, I find some very creative children (who can write wonderful essays) will struggle with the sheer logical discipline of non-verbal. With these children, I have to ingrain rules and processes so they almost switch off this creative side and adhere to a rigid step by step method.
Even a typical verbal reasoning paper requires a fairly logical approach.
I tutor for both an NFER-styple paper and a University of Durham designed exam. I find the two exams favour quite different types of children, and results bear this out.
As to Sats levels, my own child received 4's in both her English papers on Year 6 despite having a fairly high standardised score (71 above a pass) in the above-mentioned NFER-style exam. She was able to do this because the only part of the exam that was remotely English-based was the verbal reasoning and, even then, that just required a child who can spell and has some vocabulary. The fact she struggles with comprehensions (can't link questions with answers) and hates any form of composition was not relevant.
Do I expect my child to be near the top of the school? No, I don't. After all, no one is ever going to notice again that she is a whizz at non-verbal; meanwhile comprehension problems will affect most subjects. As I tell parents, the entrance exam is one thing, doing well at grammar school quite something else.
Over the years I have known of several children who were high-flying at their primary school, failed the exam, then continued to be high-flying at their destination school (whether it was the local sink comp. or the prestigious private they were squeezed into at the last moment). What I suspect happens in such children's cases is that, because they appear so able at school, their teachers often give parents the impression that grammar school is 'in the bag' and possibly less dedicated preparation goes on.
The grammar school system was largely discredited because it was felt unfair to categorise and decide a child's future based on one exam at eleven. Your clever children are proof of this unfairness, but I suspect it is harder for you to bear in that, on a daily basis, you encounter children much less able than yours when you're teaching.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:09 pm
Posts: 218
Hi, Bougalou

This is not a research article but some useful info re your question

********************

Hope this helps.

Removed by a moderator, breaks rules on advertising.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:09 pm
Posts: 218
Sorry, I did not realize that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:56 pm
Posts: 61
was chatting to a friend who works in a grammar school (to the east of me here in Surrey) about tutoring.

He said that the head of the school was getting very worried about the levels of tutoring. They had had several cases last year where the child had been tutored for the 11+ exam, passed, but then when they got the reports & documentation from the primary schools, these children were expected to get level 4's and even 3's in their Y6 SATS - where most children are expected to get 3 level 5's.

Then, surprise surprise, said children severely struggled to keep up at maths, english, science... But are now very good at the 11+ exam, as that's what they've been tutored for.

Is this fair on the children - both those struggling and those having to put up with them in the class?
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This is a interesting thread by surreydad and I have also heard this from the admissions team.
[[/quote]


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:23 pm
Posts: 435
essex mum could you pm me with the details?
Moderators is this allowed?
Bouga


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:47 am
Posts: 3310
Location: Warwickshire.
Sorry to interfere - but I am fairly certain that the Mods don't have a problem with PMs, so long as they are not threatening you!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:09 pm
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Hi, Bouga

Just sent you a PM.

Thanks, Ed's mum. You are right. I got a message from the MODS to say that it is OK via PM.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:23 pm
Posts: 435
Hi essex mum thanks for the message, but I haven't received it, could you send it again?
bougs


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:09 pm
Posts: 218
hi, Bouga

Just sent you another PM. Hope you get it this time.

Best regards
Essexmum18


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