St Olave's students petition to Nicky Morgan

[ToadMum]

DS2's school also sets a minimum score from 'best 8' which doesn't include anything below a B (12 points, A* = 3, A = 2, B = 1, so essentially a minimum of 4A + 4B), but they also only require English and Maths to have been achieved at at least a C and their current criterion for progression into year 13 is a minimum of D in each subject at AS. They are not exactly undersubscribed, either - according to an update from the HT earlier today, the school received 500 external applications last year for a minimum of 50 places this year.

The sixth form prospectus on the St Olaves website still says '6A + 3B' - ?

[salsa]

Just to add a bit of balance to this public lynching of an eminent State School.

1) This is a selective school with two points of entry at year 7 and year 12 why is OK to have a ferocious selection at the vulnerable age of 10/11 but not at a more mature age of 15/16?

2) they are opening up access to a wider range of the community at 6th form not restricting it like QE does.

3) are 64 points from 9 (a tad over an average A grade at gcse/igcse) considered overly arduous for such a selective school.

4) parents have bought into selective education no doubt are avid supporters of the adage that "cream will rise to the top" way of thinking are hardy in a position now to complain. They bought into selective education and I would suggest that such education is rarely fair it certainly is not a 10 and I see no good reason why morals should suddenly come into it at 16.

The Devil's Advocate Q.C

I hear what you are saying. The parents may have bought into a selective style of education, and some may even agree that the new requirements will keep the children on their toes and push them to achieve.
However, these are the children speaking. They didn't sign up for the pressure when they were 10. They must have been told about the lovely school with the lovely grounds and clubs.

To be fair to the parents, the school paints a very different picture on their single yearly open day at the weekend. As a parent, you don't get to see the children on a school day. You'd only see those at the open day.

Moreover, the requirements keep changing.

Leaving the requirements aside, what is transpiring through the students' comments is the lack of pastoral care and how pressurised they feel. I also detect lack in confidence in some of them. Why should these bright children lack in confidence?

So they have resorted to a very modern way of protest. They wanted to be heard and we are listening. Alas, there is nothing we can do! Just echo their concerns and hope that those who can make a difference take action.

I don't know what is like at other super selectives and I do hope it's nothing like what we are reading from the St Olave's boys. However, I did read a couple of posts from Newstead's girls saying they were also pressurised.

Is this the price to be paid for a good education or to be at the top of some league table?

[PurpleDuck]

One thing that is somewhat unclear to me is that if a school is extremely selective and presumably full of very bright boys, how come do those boys not achieve consistently well as they go up through the school? Shouldn't they be supported by their teachers to achieve their full potential, rather than be put under constant pressure? If there are high expectations placed on them, what are the teachers doing to help them raise to the challenge? Motivating students is not quite the same as pressurising them.

[Catseye]

Before anyone signs the petition may I suggest that none of us knows what hidden agendas there may be, young adults are not as innocent and naive as they like to portray themselves.

The School's sixth form policy seems perfectly fair and reasonable to me.

Welcome to the real world kids.

[salsa]

One thing that is somewhat unclear to me is that if a school is extremely selective and presumably full of very bright boys, how come do those boys not achieve consistently well as they go up through the school? Shouldn't they be supported by their teachers to achieve their full potential, rather than be put under constant pressure? If there are high expectations placed on them, what are the teachers doing to help them raise to the challenge? Motivating students is not quite the same as pressurising them.

Well, somebody commented that there were lots of new teachers. Not necessarily bad ones, but inexperienced. I don't know if this has to do with the fact that the experienced teachers left because they didn't agree with the new head or because the school had a massive deficit and new teachers would be cheaper. Their deficit, I hear, comes from a shortfall from when they received money from the church. Or something like that which I couldn't quite understand from a St Olave's parent.
Here is another comment, but from a parent:

"As the parent of a year 10 Olavian, not only am I disgusted that all this was done in such an underhand and sneaky manner (who does that?!) but I am also very concerned with several issues: the fact that so many of the boys are only too well aware that speaking out will lead to some penalty; the fact that the overwhelming feeling is that the school cares so little about the students, and that they feel unsupported, undervalued and used. From personal experience, I know only too well that, so long as everything looks good on paper for the school, all is well, even if issues are not properly addressed. I am so glad that my son's younger brother, who is starting secondary school in September, will not be going to Olave's. How sad is that..."

[doodles]

I don't know what is like at other super selectives and I do hope it's nothing like what we are reading from the St Olave's boys. However, I did read a couple of posts from Newstead's girls saying they were also pressurised.

Is this the price to be paid for a good education or to be at the top of some league table?

No, this is not the price to be paid for a good education at an excellent establishment. Both my DS are at another Kent super selective boys GS and their care and education is first class.

[salsa]

I'm glad to hear this is not the case at all super selectives.

[salsa]

Before anyone signs the petition may I suggest that none of us knows what hidden agendas there may be, young adults are not as innocent and naive as they like to portray themselves.

The School's sixth form policy seems perfectly fair and reasonable to me.

Welcome to the real world kids.

I think this youngster may answer this question:

"I started out as one of those who believed that the change in entry requirements was not a bad thing, it means we as students would work harder in pursuit of these challenging grades. However, the reason I am now signing the petition is due to the schools response to all of this. Ignoring the fact that the requirements have been (according to one teacher), up there for 6 months and the school never even tried to tell us as well as the lack of transparency in all of the decisions that may affect us until we realise ourselves. The fact they chose to change the grades this year, where we already face the new, harder IGCSE, but the fact the school are threatening Year 7's students who got into the school despite the newer and harder entrance test, had no idea what was going on as well as the fact they are still getting to grips with the school. Not only students but if some are to believed staff, fellow colleagues as well is an abomination. This is the sign of a leader who is losing it, the support of the students, support of fellow staff and the support of parents, whose entirely VOLUNTRY donations are keeping the school afloat.
Something needs to change and it needs to happen now."

[doodles]

Before anyone signs the petition may I suggest that none of us knows what hidden agendas there may be, young adults are not as innocent and naive as they like to portray themselves.

The School's sixth form policy seems perfectly fair and reasonable to me.

Welcome to the real world kids.

And in the real world everybody can and will have "a bad day at the office" but rarely will it result in them being asked to leave.

[PurpleDuck]

I'm glad to hear this is not the case at all super selectives.

It certainly is not the case in all of them and I hope St. Olave's case is more of an exception than a norm!

The petition is still doing well, by the way - just over 1200 signatures. I think St. Olavian's have a right to be heard and if they were not able to have their concerns listened to at school, they had to find another way. I'm pretty sure they are at risk of quite serious sanctions from the school and one could argue whether what they have decided to do was more to do with courage or something else, but if everyone was afraid to speak up, nothing would ever change.

Isn't there a school governing body that the students could discuss their concerns with - would that be likely to help find a resolution to what seems like a conflict situation?

(edited to fix typos )