What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indies!?

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Snowdrops
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Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by Snowdrops »

This year the required A level marks for my daughter's course was AAA. It was mentioned that 2/3 of the visiting students were made lower offers but were then expected to sit extra papers. This was to satisfy the university that they could meet the required standard. The young people in question attended poorly performing schools
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russet
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Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by russet »

I always thought it was easier to get into Oxbridge from an indie, as proportionally more children get to Oxford or Cambridge though indie schools than through state.

Am I wrong in this; does the Oxbridge intake now reflect the ratio of children educated in state and indie schools?
Guest55
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Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by Guest55 »

russet - that just reflects the 'obsession' with Oxbridge in some Private school and the degrees they steer their students towards.

Many of the degrees are not offered at Oxbridge and, for some courses, Oxbridge does not offer a year in industry or a moden industry focus some students need for their career.
KB
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Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by KB »

Pupils from Indies still make up a much higher proportion of Oxbridge entrants than they do of the school population so statistically if you are at an Indie you are more likely to go to Oxbridge.
There are arguemebts about whether this is because the students are better educated and better prepared for the selection process over being brighter or more suited to an Oxbridge education.

In an attempt to encourage access for able and suitable candidates from non- selective state schools Oxbridge and other 'elite' universities have, among other things, been using data to make contextual offers. So it's possible that an applicant from certain state schools could either be offered even though they perform 'less well' at it or made a slightly lower grade offer. Broadly this is because the environment they are in makes it harder to get the top grades that an Indie pupil is supported to achieve.

So on an individual level one could argue that if you send your bright child to a local non selective state school they could be treated more leniently when it comes to uni selection.

It's a very controversial area!!
shootmenow
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by shootmenow »

NLCS parent here (with an actual grip on reality)! .....and an Oxford-bound DD.
Oxbridge make the same offers no matter what type of school the applicant comes from. They might give some leeway in GCSE grades and subject exams when offering interviews but all offers will be identical. They look at average GCSE performance for the school as a factor. So, if you go to a poorly performing comp, you might get an interview with 6A* 2A and 2B and 45 on subject test (HAT,ELAT, TSA, PAT etc) but a top indie applicant where over half the year got all A* might be sunk by 1A and a similar subject test score. Post interview, offers for Oxford will be a standard AAA for humanities and usually A*AA for STEM. They've tested you to destruction by that point and decided they want you so offers are reasonable. Cambridge have just started subject tests this year and don't call DCs for 2-3 days of interviews at multiple colleges. They have a pool system. Too byzantine to explain here. Humanities offers are A*AA and Stem are A*A*A (or higher) but they make more offers and expect some applicants to miss them and have a summer pool.
Clear as mud?
Have a look at the Lady Margaret Hall website for the admissions blog- it explains how they use 'contextual flags'.
Other unis will give lower offers to state school applicants or be more lenient with a missed offer.
ToadMum
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Location: Essex

Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by ToadMum »

shootmenow wrote:NLCS parent here (with an actual grip on reality)! .....and an Oxford-bound DD.
Oxbridge make the same offers no matter what type of school the applicant comes from. They might give some leeway in GCSE grades and subject exams when offering interviews but all offers will be identical. They look at average GCSE performance for the school as a factor. So, if you go to a poorly performing comp, you might get an interview with 6A* 2A and 2B and 45 on subject test (HAT,ELAT, TSA, PAT etc) but a top indie applicant where over half the year got all A* might be sunk by 1A and a similar subject test score. Post interview, offers for Oxford will be a standard AAA for humanities and usually A*AA for STEM. They've tested you to destruction by that point and decided they want you so offers are reasonable. Cambridge have just started subject tests this year and don't call DCs for 2-3 days of interviews at multiple colleges. They have a pool system. Too byzantine to explain here. Humanities offers are A*AA and Stem are A*A*A (or higher) but they make more offers and expect some applicants to miss them and have a summer pool.
Clear as mud?
Have a look at the Lady Margaret Hall website for the admissions blog- it explains how they use 'contextual flags'.
Other unis will give lower offers to state school applicants or be more lenient with a missed offer.
For those in the London area particularly, this might be of interest:

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/study/undergraduat ... -mbbs.aspx

OP, I'm not sure whether your slant was, 'Hmm, perhaps I'll save my pennies and send DC to a state school anyway, even if it has to be a comprehensive :) ', or ' :shock: Why is this allowed? I'm paying all this money to get one over on the oiks and now I find out that I'm not necessarily buying as much privilege for my DC as I thought :shock:'?

I do hope not the latter :)
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Northdad
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:11 pm

Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by Northdad »

I think the forum has answered my question quite clearly. So thank you all.

The intent of the question was the former. If we had a choice of NLCS, Habs, etc OR HBS, WGGS, etc. this could have been one of the (many) factors to consider.

However the feedback here is that it makes no "contextual" difference whether the child comes from a well-performing state school or whether they come from an Indie.

Thanks
silverysea
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:32 pm

Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by silverysea »

We agonised over this issue-dd wants to apply for vet or science at cambs-though lots of other options are acceptable, its just a top goal for her to aim at.

She was at a comp in a very affluent area and has moved to a private school for 6th form.

Now I think I understand that there is no way she is going to get any advantage due to staying at that comp. on paper anyway-if anything the students are not progressing from their starting points (value added) and getting quite as high grades as they ought to in some subjects, with their advantages taken into account.

Plus now she is getting a) the courses that she actually wanted to take b) peers in the class with a very lively interest in the same courses and happy to deliver a demanding pace in those subjects.

Also, like many we are an international family-we are not confined to considering only UK universities.

The point is, we have tried to get her into the best school possible for HER interests, strengths and weaknesses-at A level it really matters about the individual department and few subjects they are studying, not just the reputation of the school as a whole. I believe if a student is happy and well matched to their environment, it will help them make the most of their education, wherever it may be.

and even less important what type of school it is-I think its a red herring for people considering indie versus grammar. Good luck and god bless to anyone from a school that needs contextual adjustment, they have so much going against them already.
shootmenow
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: What do universities prefer? Students from State or Indi

Post by shootmenow »

Just as an FYI, there's a list on the Sutton Trust website of every school in the UK's Oxbridge offers over a number of years. It gives you a good idea of what type of schools would raise contextual flags. The oxbridge numbers are just an indicator and would apply to Vet/Med/Dent/Imperial etc. Oxbridge just gets used as shorthand.
A 'leafy' comp of the CSG/Fortismere variety or a semi-selective like DAO or WGGS won't get you any advantage. There is a reference section on the UCAS form where any social, family or health challenges can be noted but, again, this is only to explain a blip in GCSE or AS performance.
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