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 Post subject: League Tables
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:44 pm 
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I have been trying to find out how the IB is scored in the league tables and came across this on the DFES site

A-level grade A = 270 points
A-level grade B = 240 points
A-level grade C = 210 points
A-level grade D = 180 points
A-level grade E = 150 points


AS-level grade A = 135 points
AS-level grade B = 120 points
AS-level grade E = 75 points


Advanced Extension Award D = 27
Advanced Extension Award M = 23


BTEC National Award D = 270
BTEC National Award P = 165


International Baccalaureate
An IB score of 45 = 1380 points
IB score of 42 = 1290
IB score of 39 = 1200
IB score of 35 = 1080
IB score of 30 = 930
IB score of 24 = 750


This means that if someone scores below 24 (full diploma) in the IB then none of their points count towards the schools total 'points per pupil' even if they flunked a paper and scored well on other subjects.

Whereas A levels and AS levels are scored all the way down to an 'E' (which was not considered a good grade in my day as most were looking for grades such as B,B,C for entry into uni.

Surely this puts any school at a disadvantage in the League tables should they offer the IB.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:18 pm 
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Location: caversham
Chad,

Sorry not answering your question but adding to the debate. :?

In the old days students did three A levels, are you expected to do more now, are the AS and A points added to equal the IB? :?

Looking at the league tables GCSE vs A/IB there are some differences I do not understand. I think it is a change of metrics. :?

Any insight welcome.

stevew61


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:41 pm 
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Having done a bit more research it looks as if the AS levels are included in the 'points per pupil' ..

so An A'grade at A' level achieves 270 QCA points.

The points are supposed to be comparable... therefore you could achieve the equivalent of 3 A grades at A level in the IB (710 points) and because you are below the 750 point level (24 marks in IB) they are discounted yet an AS level grade E - 75 points - is included in the league tables.

Doesn't seem fair to me...

(Info only....The IB is 3 subjects at higher level and 3 at standard level plus the Diploma Core (a theory of knowledge and an extended essay,you also have to complete 150hrs of Creativity,Action, Service). The subjects are marked out of 7 and the diploma core is worth 3 marks.....giving a total of 45 marks... )

And while we are on the subject (bring out the soapbox)... why do they only allow the best 8 GCSE's a pupil takes into the CVA calculation.
Surely if a pupil takes 11 GCSE's and achieves A Grades in all ....then they should all be included.... else the CVA figures must be skewed.

Stevew61...
what differences are you looking at (GCSE v A/IB) ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:54 pm 
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Stevew61...

this is from the National grammar school site...

The added value data for selective schools seems less good at KS4. Why is this?

This is because the methodology used to calculate added value effectively prevents the most able students in selective schools from adding any value at GCSE. The expected performance of each pupil in KS4 is recalculated on the basis of their achievement in KS3. In 2001 many pupils in selective schools achieved two or more level 8 grades in the KS3 tests, placing them in the top 1% of the cohort. For those pupils to maintain this standard they would have to obtain GCSE grades in the top 1% of the cohort ie A* grades. Because the A* grade represents a ceiling of GCSE achievement, a significant proportion of pupils in selective schools are not able to add value, the best they can do is to break even. The methodology used further disadvantages selective schools by capping GCSE achievement to 8 GCSEs and discounting AS and A2 grades taken early.


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 Post subject: Re: League Tables
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:00 am 
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chad wrote:
This means that if someone scores below 24 (full diploma) in the IB then none of their points count towards the schools total 'points per pupil' even if they flunked a paper and scored well on other subjects.

....

Surely this puts any school at a disadvantage in the League tables should they offer the IB.


Yes it looks like it. I am going to look into it.
Something else that needs to be looked at: I have read somewhere that the equivalent IB to A level is lower for the leagues tables than it is for UCAs points. Will look into it as well..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:35 am 
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For the league tables
45 IB score = 1380 points
A level grade A = 270 points

so a max IB score = 5.1 A levels grade A

UCAs correspondence
45 IB score = 768 points
A level grade A = 120 points

so a max IB score = 6.4 A levels grade A
[see UCAs tariff]

So the IB is more advantageous for the students than for the schools..


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Another 'difference' to CVA marks.

From the Times...

Quote:
Because the CVA caps each pupil’s attainment at an individual’s eight best GCSE results, the CVA scores for the leading schools that enter pupils for more exams are artificially held down. The effects are neatly illustrated by Kendrick School in Reading, where 99 per cent of pupils obtained five GCSEs at grades A* to C last summer. In the CVA table it ranks on the 66th percentile – implying that around two thirds of schools do better.

Another problem for Kendrick, a grammar school popular with Chinese and Asian families, lies in its intake. It must deduct 14 points from its CVA score for every girl (they are considered harder workers) and 32 points if they are Chinese (they are considered the easiest to teach). For Indian pupils the school loses 24 points.


So any school with a high intake of Indian or Chinese pupils are downgraded espec if they are girls...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:15 pm 
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chad wrote:
Another 'difference' to CVA marks.

From the Times...

Quote:
Because the CVA caps each pupil’s attainment at an individual’s eight best GCSE results, the CVA scores for the leading schools that enter pupils for more exams are artificially held down. The effects are neatly illustrated by Kendrick School in Reading, where 99 per cent of pupils obtained five GCSEs at grades A* to C last summer. In the CVA table it ranks on the 66th percentile – implying that around two thirds of schools do better.

Another problem for Kendrick, a grammar school popular with Chinese and Asian families, lies in its intake. It must deduct 14 points from its CVA score for every girl (they are considered harder workers) and 32 points if they are Chinese (they are considered the easiest to teach). For Indian pupils the school loses 24 points.


So any school with a high intake of Indian or Chinese pupils are downgraded espec if they are girls...


This is fair in a way because a chinese girl good results will be down to her upbringing as much as the school efforts, so the school shouldn't take the credit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:34 pm 
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But...

a selective school with a high Asian intake will be disadvantaged at KS4 (GCSE) CVA because...

1. If the pupils scored well at KS3 then they have to get an A* at GCSE just to keep on a par, as there are no higher grades to achieve.

2. If these pupils are asian then even if they do manage to keep the standard then they are deducted points, which makes them then seem to have lost ground over the KS3/4 period and gives the school concerned a negative (less than 1000) score for CVA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:22 pm 
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All very interesting stuff, folks! :D

To add another player into the CVA fray.....

The Times wrote:
Care is needed, too, in interpreting results for independent schools because many are abandoning GCSEs in favour of the tougher International GCSEs (IGCSEs). The IGCSE is not included in the tables.

This means that top schools including Dulwich College, Eton, Harrow, Manchester Grammar, St Paul’s and Winchester College all score a zero for the percentage of pupils gaining five or more GCSEs. In reality, all six achieved 100 per cent, if you include the IGCSE score. The Independent Schools Council could have provided the data to The Times, but refused.


If the top Independent schools are taking them, would this not suggest that they would be of higher value and thus more advantageous?
In another Times article....
The Times wrote:
The government refuses to acknowledge the IGCSE.

Whilst the report advises that the the government refuses to recognise IGCSEs, is this also true of Universities and employers? I would be surprised to find they wouldn't accept qualifications gained from such prestigious halls of learning. :shock:


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