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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:53 am 
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http://www.suttontrust.com/news/news/fo ... -oxbridge/

Two attachments at the bottom of report - One on University chances by individual school - PDF, the other Higher Education Destination Tables - Excel.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:32 am 
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nigs wrote:
http://www.suttontrust.com/news/news/four-schools-and-one-college-win-more-places-at-oxbridge/

Two attachments at the bottom of report - One on University chances by individual school - PDF, the other Higher Education Destination Tables - Excel.



Thanks for the link nigs.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:42 am 
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Sir Peter Lampl, chairman of the Sutton Trust, sends his three children to elite private schools. So does David Willetts.

Nice to see how these egalitarian principles can be bent rather flexibly in the case of one's own children.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Kesteven wrote:
Sir Peter Lampl, chairman of the Sutton Trust, sends his three children to elite private schools. So does David Willetts.

Nice to see how these egalitarian principles can be bent rather flexibly in the case of one's own children.


So true but Peter Lamp supports selective schools and grammar schools. I wonder if he ever thinks about those who don't make it into grammars.

There is nothing new in this report, same old stuff. Its the same with the report they did in 2008 and the same school have maintained their grip. He also just seem to have an obsession of state vs indies, I wish he could do an in depth one of the state schools themselves ie grammar vs comprehensive. Its equally depressing.

...but this from coalition made me laugh
Quote:
Last night, the Coalition insisted the findings represented a “damning indictment of Labour’s failure to improve social mobility”.

Perhaps I have missed something the coalition is doing :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:54 pm 
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sherry_d wrote:
Perhaps I have missed something the coalition is doing


They missed quoting the bit he was probably thinking but may not have actually said: "And if you think it was bad under Labour, you've seen nothing yet!"

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:02 pm 
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the spreadsheet on this link re admissions is actually really interesting as one of the main points they make is that there is a discrepancy between total A level score and percentage of selected university entrance which i assume is some kind of russell group thing.

if you plot average A level score vs percentage going to selected universities you get a near strait line correlation between the 2 you can then use this to predict for each school what percentage of students they should get into these top uni's so if your school gets an average a level score of 800 say then it should get 35% into top unis

the equation models at

percent into uni = 0.17*average alevelscore -100

with a sd of around 10% for each score

so if you look up your school and compare its percentage into uni vs its predicted from the above regression you can see how well it's doing in getting kids into top uni's compared to other schools with similar a level results.

for example a local top grammar in our area is getting an impressive 1066 score for its a level result and so comparing it to other similar schools should be getting 80% of it's kids into top uni's but it only gets 66% so it's actually not doing so well with this in comparison to other schools

not really sure how useful this analysis is but it is interesting


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:08 pm 
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interestingly it's the selective schools that seem to do worst and on average get 14% less kids into the selected uni's for equivalent a level results than the indies with comps getting 4 % less than the indies


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Hi Tree! Thanks for your post.

The school near you with the A level points average of 1000 plus? ... North of us here in North London is a school with a similar 1000 plus score, but it's Oxbridge and Sutton Trust Top 30 Uni entrance is not great. But south of us is an elite Indy with a lower A level points average but a very high top Uni entrance percentage.

I believe this is because of two factors:

Some schools focus on any A level combinations, including 'soft' subjects, which yield comparatively easy points credits. They may know that their kids are able and hard working, but generally not exceptional. They may also not have the quality and type of teacher and low class size needed for getting either an exceptional performance out of a merely very able student, or for properly supporting an exceptional talent. The parents are also generally happy with this.

Other schools focus on the classical A levels, which the top uni's prefer anyway, but which are harder to pick up points from. They may have more exceptional students or tease exceptional performances out of a quite a few anyway, because
they have the resources and because the parents demand them and expect them. A level points may be irrelevant to such parents. The more academic indy schools have this culture. They can also select at age 13, not just at 11 and 16, and they can interview unlike state selectives, additional opportunities for a laser-like focus from day 1 on top Uni entrance.

WH


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:59 pm 
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...but the higher points may simply be they are doing more A levels and grades per subjects may not be brilliant. Personally I think A levels points aren't a meaningful measure of how good a school is doing. The actual grades make more senses like percentage of A / A*

Your local selective school Tree may be doing for example 5 or 6 A levels giving them a higher aggregate combined score whereas the Indie could be doing fewer subjects 3 or 4 but getting better grades. Most of the Sutton Universities look at grades not aggregate scores so that's slightly meaningless for Sutton Trust to include these alone.

That's why I find most league tables meaningless, Times seems to be the only one ranking school according to Grades not aggregate scores. It should be quality and not quantity that matters. You also have to factor in the fact that some selective grammars still do "soft subjects", at one of my local grammars the second most popular subject at A level was Psychology and third popular was Applied Business Studies. In 2010 they didn't have a single Oxbridge admission, this isnt a Superselective but hopefully that explains why grades and aggregate scores alone don't give a full picture. This school comes top of Kent League tables with more than 1200 points.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:55 pm 
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interesting ideas i really don't know what causes it but i suppose it may be a useful statistic to look at if you are choosing schools or 6th forms


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