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 Post subject: Ilford County Appeal
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:41 am 
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Not wishing to put anybody off from appealing for this School but I would just like to put a few Facts forward so that if you are considering an appeal you know what you are letting yourself in for.

1. There is no room in this School at all

Basically you are wasting your time appealing because there is no space in this School for any extra pupils. Makes a mockery of an appeal really because there is no room in this school for even 1 extra place. FACT statement from Redbridge representative.

2. Supportive Indication of Grammar School Ability

Worthless because of point 1 above.

3. Extenuating circumstances

Worthless because of point 1 above.

In a word if you are appealing for Ilford County Redbridge I would not bother wasting your time!! The process is just a means to get things off your chest.

There is around 30 appeals roughly a year for this School I am not aware of 1 successful appeal to this School, please correct me if I am wrong on this. The government like to preach the facts that 30% of appeals are successful so I would like an explanation to why it is impossible to appeal to get into this school.

Our case was a very strong one, but that aside the statistics for this school on appeals do not stack up, there must have been a few cases that should have been allowed by law of averages.

If you take into consideration the police involvement with test scores on a separate thread you have to wonder what is going on in Redbridge and if we should be calling for an enquiry into the process.

I honestly believe there is something very wrong in the Redbridge 11+ process from testing right through to appeal.

There, one year on and it is off my chest!!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:48 am 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Dear Kracken

Whilst I agree with you that the appeals process in Redbridge leaves much to be desired, I have to point out that at a Transfer Appeal, the LA case is always that "there is no room for an extra child".

The job of the appellant is to overturn that case and prove that the disadvantage to the child of not receiving a place outweighs the disadvantage to the school of having to accommodate them.

You should also note that the figure of 30% that the government statistics refer to includes all types of school appeal - non-qualification and over-subscription, primary and secondary.

I am moving this thread to the Redbridge section, because the appeals section is not an appropriate place to vent your anger at the system.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:32 pm 
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Dear Sally-Anne,

Quote:
the LA case is always that "there is no room for an extra child".


Well I would take issue with that a little, I would believe that the Authority case should be "would be detrimental to the School" so that if you have a strong case this may be overturned. However in Redbridge it comes across that there is absolutely no place available. So why have an appeal process at all??

The other issue is that it is fine for ICH to increase its 6th form intake year on year even though the site is an absolute health and safety disaster with regard to pupil numbers and would result in a major disaster if they admitted 1 extra place at y7!!

Quote:
You should also note that the figure of 30% that the government statistics refer to includes all types of school appeal - non-qualification and over-subscription, primary and secondary.


Yes I agree this wasn't a very good comparison, It would be fairer to compare to other Grammar appeal figures, unfortunately I haven't got those figures to hand.

Quote:
I am moving this thread to the Redbridge section, because the appeals section is not an appropriate place to vent your anger at the system.


Sure, I only posted in appeals because it was a post about appeals, sorry for the rant against the system but I thought Redbridge were well due for it!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Ilford County Appeal
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Location: Watford, Herts
kracken wrote:
1. There is no room in this School at all

That is the case with every appeal at every school. Schools are required to take applicants from their waiting lists until they reach their admission number, regardless of the number of pending appeals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Kracken

kracken wrote:
Quote:
the LA case is always that "there is no room for an extra child".


Well I would take issue with that a little, I would believe that the Authority case should be "would be detrimental to the School" so that if you have a strong case this may be overturned. However in Redbridge it comes across that there is absolutely no place available. So why have an appeal process at all??

The strength of the Admissions Authority's case can vary considerably. I know of one school in my area that hardly ever loses an over-subscription appeal simply because their case is so compelling. Their case also comes across as if there is no possibility of admitting an additional child. That does not mean that it cannot be overturned at all.

Quote:
It would be fairer to compare to other Grammar appeal figures, unfortunately I haven't got those figures to hand.

In Bucks we have both non-qualifcation appeals (approx. 40% success rate) and over-subscription appeals. The success rate for grammar school over-subscription appeals is approximately 12 - 15%, so not that high.

Personally I am amazed that anyone wins one at all - it takes an awful lot to overturn a school's case these days, let alone in Redbridge.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Sally-Anne wrote:
success rate for grammar school over-subscription appeals is approximately 12 - 15%, so not that high.

For Ilford County I believe the figure to be 0%

WP wrote:
That is the case with every appeal at every school. Schools are required to take applicants from their waiting lists until they reach their admission number, regardless of the number of pending appeals.

Yes but I would imagine for the vast majority of those schools there would be a clear idea that a successful appeal was possible, it may be slim but it is possible.

OK you both highlight that technically there is no extra place available in any school so I guess there is no point appealing for any school because there is no possible way a school can take on an additional pupil or two. However because evidence contradicts this for the vast majority of schools there is a hope that an appeal may be successfull and 10 to 15% success shows this to be the case. I just wanted to point out that this doesn't apply if you are appealing for ICH.

I personally think that there is always going to be genuine reasons why a small percentage of children have performed below par at a test. Surley this is the point of an appeal? It just seems totally ridiculous to attend an appeal as we did and just be told total garbage about how totally statsistically accurate and sound the test is (A joke it seems given recent other problems) and that the 120 number is the final number and that there is no room at the school end of.

I just thought it was best known to 2010 11+ parents that there is no genuine appeal route in Rebridge for ICH unless someone out there can prove me wrong!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Sally-Anne wrote:
In Bucks we have both non-qualifcation appeals (approx. 40% success rate) and over-subscription appeals. The success rate for grammar school over-subscription appeals is approximately 12 - 15%, so not that high.

Just re-read your post and I must clarify that our appeal was non-qualification but Authority case for rejection was over-subscription. (over-subscription I can understand would be difficult to appeal on) So 40% is a very good figure IMO for non-qualification.

The 0% for ICH is all Appeals for whatever reason, so something is wrong.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:28 pm 
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kracken wrote:
Just re-read your post and I must clarify that our appeal was non-qualification but Authority case for rejection was over-subscription. (over-subscription I can understand would be difficult to appeal on) So 40% is a very good figure IMO for non-qualification.

But Redbridge doesn't have a qualification-based system (as Bucks does). They use rank order of scores as their oversubscription criterion. Unfortunately when authorities do that, arguing that the test result doesn't represent the child's ability, or that something affected them on the day, doesn't seem to work. (The latter is theoretically supposed to be possible though.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:51 pm 
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WP

Quote:
But Redbridge doesn't have a qualification-based system (as Bucks does)


This was a year ago from memory and terminology may be different between Counties.

My understanding was that you cannot appeal on grounds of oversubscription for a grammar as it is selective and based on test scores. So our appeal was based on poor performance due to extenuating circumstances. I took this to mean non qualification in Bucks terminology.

Quote:
or that something affected them on the day, doesn't seem to work


You are dead right there!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Location: Lincolnshire
WP wrote:
They use rank order of scores as their oversubscription criterion. Unfortunately when authorities do that, arguing that the test result doesn't represent the child's ability, or that something affected them on the day, doesn't seem to work. (The latter is theoretically supposed to be possible though.)


Again I think it varies widely area to area and school to school. Certainly there are some successes here but as there is a baseline passmark as well and decision letters are not always exactly illuminating it is sometimes difficult to tell whether academic arguments, mitigating circumstances or oversubscription type arguments have won the day.


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