Bucks Appeal EP report advice
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Bucks Appeal EP report advice
Hi, I'm new to the forum although I have been dipping in to read threads most nights for the past few weeks while waiting for our appeal to be heard. So first I'd like to thank everyone for sharing their appeal experiences, they are much appreciated & the successes provide much needed hope on the long sleepless nights.
Due to the snow our Bucks appeal was rescheduled, so we decided to use the 'extra time' to get an EP report. This was partly to provide alternative evidence ( OOC primary school does not do CAT tests) but also to reassure our DD who in her scientific, logical mind seems to prefer measured evidence that she is bright to what she terms our 'just being kind' (perhaps I have a future appeals panelist in the making).
The EP report has just arrived today and the scores read
VCI 126 (96th percentile)
PRI 135 (99th percentile)
WMI 97 (42nd percentile)
PSI 126 (96th percentile)
FSIQ 129 (97th percentile)
The rest of the report is short (8 pages in total including the 3 pages on supplementary diagnostic tests) and on the whole is good but I am wary of submitting it tomorrow & causing another unnecessary reschedule (albeit self inflicted) because to my untrained eye homes in on the two things which seem very negative in the context of 11+ :
a) The low working memory score
b) A comment in the conclusion that her spelling is a relative weakness for her intelligence although average for her age (WIAT II score 92 ).
I don't want these two items to unbalance the rest of our case which includes 118x2 scores on the Bucks test, good reports (year 5 - 4B English, 4B Maths, 5C Science), headteachers recommendation of 1:1 ( OOC LEA school though so no comparitives) predicted 3x5A SATS, top sets, above average reading age, marked & signed practice SAT papers (5B English, 5C Maths), books with good teacher comments, supportive letter from senior teacher plus extenuating family circumstances since beginning of term.
It may be the waiting is causing me to highlight little thing & worry needlessly but I'm not sure that I'll be able to persuade the panel that it's the extenuating family circumstances & not DD's measured inability to spell that caused the lower than expected scores.
Any advice?
Sleepless
Due to the snow our Bucks appeal was rescheduled, so we decided to use the 'extra time' to get an EP report. This was partly to provide alternative evidence ( OOC primary school does not do CAT tests) but also to reassure our DD who in her scientific, logical mind seems to prefer measured evidence that she is bright to what she terms our 'just being kind' (perhaps I have a future appeals panelist in the making).
The EP report has just arrived today and the scores read
VCI 126 (96th percentile)
PRI 135 (99th percentile)
WMI 97 (42nd percentile)
PSI 126 (96th percentile)
FSIQ 129 (97th percentile)
The rest of the report is short (8 pages in total including the 3 pages on supplementary diagnostic tests) and on the whole is good but I am wary of submitting it tomorrow & causing another unnecessary reschedule (albeit self inflicted) because to my untrained eye homes in on the two things which seem very negative in the context of 11+ :
a) The low working memory score
b) A comment in the conclusion that her spelling is a relative weakness for her intelligence although average for her age (WIAT II score 92 ).
I don't want these two items to unbalance the rest of our case which includes 118x2 scores on the Bucks test, good reports (year 5 - 4B English, 4B Maths, 5C Science), headteachers recommendation of 1:1 ( OOC LEA school though so no comparitives) predicted 3x5A SATS, top sets, above average reading age, marked & signed practice SAT papers (5B English, 5C Maths), books with good teacher comments, supportive letter from senior teacher plus extenuating family circumstances since beginning of term.
It may be the waiting is causing me to highlight little thing & worry needlessly but I'm not sure that I'll be able to persuade the panel that it's the extenuating family circumstances & not DD's measured inability to spell that caused the lower than expected scores.
Any advice?
Sleepless
Hi Sleepless
Just to say that you are not alone. We got an EP Report done for our DD and had similar scores including Working Memory (34th percentile!!). We submitted the entire report as I don't think it looks particularly good if the panel feel they are not getting the whole picture. Like you I was apprehensive about a low score but when I did some research into it, it turns out that the Working Memory Index is just one of those things that some people are great at and others are not. By the looks of it your DD's intelligence percentile will still be pretty high, and in the above average/exceptional category so don't lose too much sleep over it. In our presentation we also used the summing up of the EP as we felt it expressed very well what we wanted to say. We used it to back up anything we said and felt the panel accepted what we said on the matter. Best of luck with the appeal and stay happy
lisnagree
Just to say that you are not alone. We got an EP Report done for our DD and had similar scores including Working Memory (34th percentile!!). We submitted the entire report as I don't think it looks particularly good if the panel feel they are not getting the whole picture. Like you I was apprehensive about a low score but when I did some research into it, it turns out that the Working Memory Index is just one of those things that some people are great at and others are not. By the looks of it your DD's intelligence percentile will still be pretty high, and in the above average/exceptional category so don't lose too much sleep over it. In our presentation we also used the summing up of the EP as we felt it expressed very well what we wanted to say. We used it to back up anything we said and felt the panel accepted what we said on the matter. Best of luck with the appeal and stay happy
lisnagree
Hi, we had our appeal today and produced an EP report which was the panel's first sight of it. They were happy to receive it, we apologised and explained that our EP was snowed under with appeals and we only just managed to get squeezed in. We separated this document from the rest of the evidence and we were asked to leave the room so that they could read it in private before we began the appeal.
If you have any scores that are not strongly supportive of your appeal I urge you to have it removed - we included a maths assessment that was and additional test we requested that, although was above average, was discussed and pointed to a lot.
If there is anything there that weakens the academic evidence it is detrimental to your appeal (unless of course a child has a specific SEN)
Could you email the EP and ask for them to email you a version with any 'weak' scores removed? You don't need the WMI score - they were not interested in ours.
If you have any scores that are not strongly supportive of your appeal I urge you to have it removed - we included a maths assessment that was and additional test we requested that, although was above average, was discussed and pointed to a lot.
If there is anything there that weakens the academic evidence it is detrimental to your appeal (unless of course a child has a specific SEN)
Could you email the EP and ask for them to email you a version with any 'weak' scores removed? You don't need the WMI score - they were not interested in ours.
Dear Sleepless
You can't ask for the WMI result to be taken out, as it's an integral part of the WISC tests, not an optional extra, and it's not in your best interests to arouse the panel's suspicions! Anyone who knows anything about WISC reports (and there's likely to be someone on the panel who does) will expect to see VCI, PRI, WMI, and PSI. In some cases - where the individual results are too varied - the FSIQ is not calculated, but the EP would normally explain that it's because it would not be meaningful.
I don't believe the panel would be too concerned about an average working memory. I think they're going to be much more interested in performance (verbal and perceptual reasoning). It's worth noting that the FSIQ is a composite score that includes WMI, but still comes out at a high percentile. A relative weakness in working memory could be viewed as an extenuating circumstance and help explain an underperformance in the 11+.
Flossie seems to have been rather lucky with her panel. If someone produces a full EP report out of the blue, it is more likely than not that their appeal will be adjourned.
The best solution would be if the EP could email you a very short letter just stating the following:
Summary of results of WISC test
VCI 126 (96th percentile)
PRI 135 (99th percentile)
WMI 97 (42nd percentile)
PSI 126 (96th percentile)
FSIQ 129 (97th percentile)
Name and qualifications of EP
You could then offer 5 copies of the summary at the hearing, explaining that you have nothing to hide, but didn't want to risk the possibility of a second adjournment.
The above results would, in my view, be useful additional evidence for your case.
You can't ask for the WMI result to be taken out, as it's an integral part of the WISC tests, not an optional extra, and it's not in your best interests to arouse the panel's suspicions! Anyone who knows anything about WISC reports (and there's likely to be someone on the panel who does) will expect to see VCI, PRI, WMI, and PSI. In some cases - where the individual results are too varied - the FSIQ is not calculated, but the EP would normally explain that it's because it would not be meaningful.
I don't believe the panel would be too concerned about an average working memory. I think they're going to be much more interested in performance (verbal and perceptual reasoning). It's worth noting that the FSIQ is a composite score that includes WMI, but still comes out at a high percentile. A relative weakness in working memory could be viewed as an extenuating circumstance and help explain an underperformance in the 11+.
Flossie seems to have been rather lucky with her panel. If someone produces a full EP report out of the blue, it is more likely than not that their appeal will be adjourned.
The best solution would be if the EP could email you a very short letter just stating the following:
Summary of results of WISC test
VCI 126 (96th percentile)
PRI 135 (99th percentile)
WMI 97 (42nd percentile)
PSI 126 (96th percentile)
FSIQ 129 (97th percentile)
Name and qualifications of EP
You could then offer 5 copies of the summary at the hearing, explaining that you have nothing to hide, but didn't want to risk the possibility of a second adjournment.
The above results would, in my view, be useful additional evidence for your case.
Etienne
Our appeal was last Thursday. We don't yet know the result but I thought I'd post our experience now that "what I should have said" type thoughts have nearly stopped reverberating through my head.
Following my last post I contacted the EP who kindly agreed to provide a signed one page letter. Once I got this there were still 24 hours to go before our hearing, so I scanned and emailed this to the appeals office in the hope that the panel would have least had sight of it before the start.
Our appeal panel consisted of 2 very experienced (retired) teachers and a lay chairman who had previously been a school governor. I remember feeling reassured by their experience of both appeals and children as one of the things I have struggled with during this process is not really being sure how my DC's school work compares to that of her peers.
The appeal was delayed by about half an hour (for which everyone was very apologetic) & took about 35-40 minutes. I did offer copies of the full EP report but they were happy with the summary (thank you Etienne).
THe LEA rep read his preprepared speeach as expected. We asked if there was an invigilators report available from the second test (as this could have helped with one of our points later) but were told that unfortunately these are not routinely provided by ooc schools but would have to be obtained specially.
DH read out a prepared speech (as the reheasal proved I would be too emotional) and then the panel asked questions. They were very nice, gentle even. That's not to say that they didn't query everything just that they seemed very aware of the emotions that some questions might stir up & didn't want to hurt intentionally.
We took nothing for granted & were as honest as possible during the questioning, although this is incredibly difficult to do as part of you is trying to make sure you don't waste time wandering off topic while another part is trying to avoid saying anything that might come across as potentially damaging in some way.
The panel were very difficult to read, some points they seemed happy with but on others I'm not sure we convinced them that we were telling the truth at all. They did seem irritated that I had sent in additional evidence in dribs and drabs (2009 KS2 SAT results as ooc school, an earlier school report, the EP summary).
I cringe when I think of how badly I answered some things & how we might have seemed to contradict ourselves in others. On a really easy question - what interests does your DD have - my mind went completely blank and I automatically said 'I don't know' . Luckily DH stepped in fairly quickly with a better answer.
Overall we came away feeling that we had been fairly heard & that any holes in our case were of our own making. Even the LEA rep was nice.
Afterwards I contacted the appeals office to pass my thanks on to the panel for enabling this process.
Whatever happens, having the EP report done was a useful thing. It has already bolstererd DD's confidence and gives us pointers in how to help her realise her full potential.
And now the waiting continues.........
Following my last post I contacted the EP who kindly agreed to provide a signed one page letter. Once I got this there were still 24 hours to go before our hearing, so I scanned and emailed this to the appeals office in the hope that the panel would have least had sight of it before the start.
Our appeal panel consisted of 2 very experienced (retired) teachers and a lay chairman who had previously been a school governor. I remember feeling reassured by their experience of both appeals and children as one of the things I have struggled with during this process is not really being sure how my DC's school work compares to that of her peers.
The appeal was delayed by about half an hour (for which everyone was very apologetic) & took about 35-40 minutes. I did offer copies of the full EP report but they were happy with the summary (thank you Etienne).
THe LEA rep read his preprepared speeach as expected. We asked if there was an invigilators report available from the second test (as this could have helped with one of our points later) but were told that unfortunately these are not routinely provided by ooc schools but would have to be obtained specially.
DH read out a prepared speech (as the reheasal proved I would be too emotional) and then the panel asked questions. They were very nice, gentle even. That's not to say that they didn't query everything just that they seemed very aware of the emotions that some questions might stir up & didn't want to hurt intentionally.
We took nothing for granted & were as honest as possible during the questioning, although this is incredibly difficult to do as part of you is trying to make sure you don't waste time wandering off topic while another part is trying to avoid saying anything that might come across as potentially damaging in some way.
The panel were very difficult to read, some points they seemed happy with but on others I'm not sure we convinced them that we were telling the truth at all. They did seem irritated that I had sent in additional evidence in dribs and drabs (2009 KS2 SAT results as ooc school, an earlier school report, the EP summary).
I cringe when I think of how badly I answered some things & how we might have seemed to contradict ourselves in others. On a really easy question - what interests does your DD have - my mind went completely blank and I automatically said 'I don't know' . Luckily DH stepped in fairly quickly with a better answer.
Overall we came away feeling that we had been fairly heard & that any holes in our case were of our own making. Even the LEA rep was nice.
Afterwards I contacted the appeals office to pass my thanks on to the panel for enabling this process.
Whatever happens, having the EP report done was a useful thing. It has already bolstererd DD's confidence and gives us pointers in how to help her realise her full potential.
And now the waiting continues.........
Just to say that our appeal was unsuccessful, but thanks to everyone on this forum anyway as without you we would not have got this far.
The decision letter states ' The IAP was not sufficiently satisfied that DD is academically suitable for grammar school at this time'. I wondered if this was code for 'try for the 12+ '?
If so, do any forum members have experience of achieving the 12+ for an ooc child or do we have to move to achieve being considered?
Sleepless
The decision letter states ' The IAP was not sufficiently satisfied that DD is academically suitable for grammar school at this time'. I wondered if this was code for 'try for the 12+ '?
If so, do any forum members have experience of achieving the 12+ for an ooc child or do we have to move to achieve being considered?
Sleepless
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Sleepless
I am sorry that you were not successful. The EP report was pretty strong, but the scores were against you of course, as was the lack of any real context for the Head's recommendation.
Send me a PM to let me know where you live and which your preferred schools were and I will give you a better view. A house move is an awfully big thing to consider, and might heap pressure on your daughter.
In the meantime, please read my 12+ Sticky on Bucks very carefully!
Sally-Anne
I am sorry that you were not successful. The EP report was pretty strong, but the scores were against you of course, as was the lack of any real context for the Head's recommendation.
I always think that sentence reads very badly. It is a standard sentence, and not code - just a way of softening the blow.Sleepless wrote:The decision letter states ' The IAP was not sufficiently satisfied that DD is academically suitable for grammar school at this time'. I wondered if this was code for 'try for the 12+ '?
There are a very few schools where you might just stand a chance of getting a place, but the odds are not that high.If so, do any forum members have experience of achieving the 12+ for an ooc child or do we have to move to achieve being considered?
Send me a PM to let me know where you live and which your preferred schools were and I will give you a better view. A house move is an awfully big thing to consider, and might heap pressure on your daughter.
In the meantime, please read my 12+ Sticky on Bucks very carefully!
Sally-Anne
