CAT score - NVR: link with science ability???

Consult our experts on 11 Plus appeals or any other type of school appeal

Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators

11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now
cairo
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:09 pm

CAT score - NVR: link with science ability???

Post by cairo »

Can anyone please help me?

I've read on this site that a high NV score in the CAT test indicates an aptitude for science, maths and engineering. I'd like to mention this in my son's appeal, but don't want to say it if it isn't true! I can't find anything on the NFeR website (the people who administer CATs I think). Can anyone point me in the right direction?

The appeal paperwork needs to be in in the next couple of days, so would be very grateful for any help ASAP.

Thank you
Cairo
fm

Post by fm »

I am sorry I can't point you in the right direction but I think there must be some truth in this.

My really high performers at non-verbal usually have parents who are engineers, computer programmers, architects, science lectures or similar.

My really poor performers often have parents who admit they can't see the patterns either but often have very good degrees in Arts subjects.

Hopefully someone will be along soon with the right advice.
T12ACY
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:12 pm
Location: Kent

Post by T12ACY »

What you are asking about has also been mentioned here:

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=14810

This suggests there is a link.........
cairo
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:09 pm

Post by cairo »

Yes, I've seen that discussion thanks. What I'm trying to find though is evidence of the link - not just hearsay. Anyone else know anything about this? Any CAT specialists out there??
Tolstoy
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:25 pm

Post by Tolstoy »

Cairo when I asked for information from my son's head on his CAT scores I was given a table. The way it was set out and my sons corresponding scores led me to believe that Gloucestershire use the NVR score to give a predicted science SATs score. V.R equates to English score and QR to Maths. Have you got this information from your sons school. If not I will send you my sons table via p.m.

If your son has a high NVR score this might also be of some use


http://www.satsguide.co.uk/help__other_ ... _tests.htm


2. Is CAT a measure of innate ability? Are CAT results in any way affected by teaching?
There is no such thing as a measure of ‘innate ability’. The quality of prior teaching, opportunities to learn, parental support and pupils’ educational experience will undoubtedly affect pupils’ performance on all educational tests. However tests of the taught curriculum - reading, mathematics, spelling etc. - are likely to be influenced to a greater degree than reasoning tests. Attainment tests, such as National Curriculum tests, are designed to measure outcomes of specific learning and instruction, and the content is drawn directly from the taught curriculum. In contrast, reasoning tests tap a general set of prior experience by assessing the perception and manipulation of relationships and content that is not generally part of the taught curriculum. Non Verbal Reasoning (NVR) tests, with their relatively low language demands, are least likely to be influenced by the quality of teaching issues. This issue is dealt with in detail in Chapter 8 of “Getting the Best from CAT��? (Strand, 2003).

As Gloucestershire 11+ is totally V.R based I think certain very bright children are penalised by the system.

Good luck.
cairo
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:09 pm

Post by cairo »

Tolstoy - No I haven't been given any table which might show a link between NVR and Science, so if you wouldn't mind p.m-ing me something I'd be very grateful.

DS1 scored 141, which I think is right at the top of the scale and I'd love to be able to say "this shows an aptitude for Science and your school has a specialism/reputation for Science, so please can he have a place?" But don't want to say it if it isn't true....

Thanks a lot,
Cairo

PS As you can see I did decide to appeal (because DS1 asked me to) - the things we do for our children, eh?
panicattack!
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:30 pm

Post by panicattack! »

I am in exactly the same position as you Cairo although different area. I have been trying to find "evidence" too but understand that there are links but just trying to find them is proving elusive! Can any of the mods point us in the right direction?
mitasol
Posts: 2756
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:59 am

Post by mitasol »

I can't find anything as specific as you are asking but depending on your circumstances these may be of use.

http://www.testingforschools.com/help/CAT3-guidance.pdf
Despite the lack of overlap with formal schooling, non-verbal reasoning tests have been found to relate significantly to school achievement, providing a useful addition to verbal tests. Among pupils with similar levels of verbal ability, the level of non-verbal ability may well identify those with the greater aptitude for the visual–spatial academic disciplines, such as mathematics, physics, art and design and technology. Tests of spatial ability are used in employment settings to identify those with aptitude for such careers as design, engineering and architecture.

The Non-Verbal Battery measures what has been termed ‘fluid intelligence’: that is, an ability to reason that is not strongly influenced by cultural and educational background.Where performance on this battery is superior to that on the other two batteries, it may suggest potential that is not fully expressed in performance on school-related tasks, for one reason or another. Scores on this battery may be particularly valuable in assessing the reasoning ability of pupils with poor English language skills, pupils with specific problems in language-based work, or disaffected pupils who may have failed to achieve in academic work for motivational reasons.
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/cedar ... aper10.pdf
While performance on the three CAT batteries is positively correlated, some individuals show a marked strength or weakness in reasoning in one or other of the three modalities. For example, 25 some students have an exceptional facility in thinking with words, but are relatively weak in the other areas. Equally other students may have a great facility with thinking in shape and space, or with number, but be relatively weaker in the verbal area. It is tempting therefore to consider a
highly able student as one who scores in the top 5% (SAS of 126 or above) on any one of the three tests. However while each separate battery identifies 5% of the population, the proportion who score 126 or above on any one of the three batteries is around 10% of the population.
Similar evidence has been provided by the CEM centre in an analysis of their MidYIS tests, where use of the three separate vocabulary, maths and non-verbal reasoning tests would raise the proportion to 9% (Lyth & Coe, 2005).
cairo
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:09 pm

Post by cairo »

Thanks Mitasol - very helpful.
panicattack!
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:30 pm

Post by panicattack! »

Yes very useful. I will explore this further too. Etienne do you think this is evidence that can be used without lecturing the panel members?
Post Reply
11 Plus Platform - Online Practice Makes Perfect - Try Now