Practice for the 11+
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Practice for the 11+
After much chatting together my daughter has decided she would like to sit the 11+. Can anyone advise what I should buy so we can work together, I would prefer a little and often approach, perhaps 10 mins per day.
Also her teacher has said it is likely she would get a place a one of the Southend schools but not as likely to get into Chelmsford. We aren't in the Southend catchment so can anyone explain why the chances here would be higher? Thanks
Also her teacher has said it is likely she would get a place a one of the Southend schools but not as likely to get into Chelmsford. We aren't in the Southend catchment so can anyone explain why the chances here would be higher? Thanks
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Brian
A good starting point for you will be the two pages of information written by professional tutors on Essex in this website:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11-plus-essex.php
Your next port of call should be the Essex Consortiums website:
www.csse.org.uk
These two sources will answer many of your questions and give you a head start.
Brian
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11-plus-essex.php
Your next port of call should be the Essex Consortiums website:
www.csse.org.uk
These two sources will answer many of your questions and give you a head start.
Brian
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Guest
Thanks Brian. Does anyone know the average IQ levels for those gaining a place at Essex grammers? We took part in a study of ADHD and were all tested for IQ and various other factors. Have just received the results and am wondering if I can use the IQ score to help make a decision about my daughter taking the 11+.
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Essex Girl
Essex grammars - various
Guest,
The IQ levels vary greatly from the average 100 right up to the gifted levels at 140 or more.
ADHD children obviously have IQs which vary in the same way as children without ADHD. The only difficulty may be that the child finds it difficult to concentrate for the "sitting down" time during the exam. If this is not a problem then all should be well.
In Essex (can't speak for other areas) there is no extra time or special compensation given to children with problems such as ADHD, dyslexia (probably spelt that wrong!!), etc, etc so it is a question of whether the child can cope.
If you have not been able to find the information to assist you with your questions regarding Chelmsford versus Southend, etc, please ask and I will explain. Also, if you require any "personal" opinions on the schools, please ask and I will provide. I do stress though, that they are only "personal" opinions.
Good luck
The IQ levels vary greatly from the average 100 right up to the gifted levels at 140 or more.
ADHD children obviously have IQs which vary in the same way as children without ADHD. The only difficulty may be that the child finds it difficult to concentrate for the "sitting down" time during the exam. If this is not a problem then all should be well.
In Essex (can't speak for other areas) there is no extra time or special compensation given to children with problems such as ADHD, dyslexia (probably spelt that wrong!!), etc, etc so it is a question of whether the child can cope.
If you have not been able to find the information to assist you with your questions regarding Chelmsford versus Southend, etc, please ask and I will explain. Also, if you require any "personal" opinions on the schools, please ask and I will provide. I do stress though, that they are only "personal" opinions.
Good luck
Thanks Essex girl. Just to explain, my son does have adhd and my daughter does not but as a result of the study we now have IQ levels for both. My daughter was impressed with Southend, turned off by Westcliff and so-so about Chelmsford, can you explain how the places are allocated, is it score, preference or both. Chelmsford is our 'local' grammar but with no catchment and most people I speak to seem to think that they only take the very highest scorers, is this true? Therefore is it right that if you put Chelmsford first and don't make the grade you could also miss a place a Southend or Westcliffe. I know it's not the end of the world if she doesn't go where she wants to but I would like to understand the system to help with choices. Your help and opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Essex girl
Scores for Essex
Firstly, we are having trouble with our internet connection so it may go off while I am trying to respond. If this is the case, apologies for the delay.
Now, to answer your questions.
If you were to apply for the following schools (for example) in the following order:
1. Chelmsford
2. Southend
3. Westcliff
4. Sandon
Your daughter would be allocated to the first school which, according to its criteria, would be able to take her. Therefore, if your daughter has a score that puts her in the top 500 (or thereabouts) candidates, she is likely to achieve a score for Chelmsford and would be offered a place there.
As far as Southend and Westcliff are concerned, you usually need a few more points for Westcliff than you do for Southend. Thereforefore, if your daughter, with the above choices, did not gain a place at Chelmsford but had the right score for Southend (she would need to be in the top 900 candidates or thereabouts, then she would be offered a place at Southend.
However, because Westclif usually require a few more points than Southend, if your daughter did not get the Southend place, then it is likely that she would be offered Sandon.
In the Southend area there are 150 places at each of Westcliff and Southend. 115 (maximum) of these places is offered to children in the catchment area who have passed the exam (obviously, in the order of points with which they passed).
The passmark is set each year at, purely for example, 100 and no child will be admitted below that passmark. In reality it means that if, in the catchment area, 120 girls score above 100, then 5 of them would not automatically be given a place at one of their grammars.
Next, the rest of the places are offered out according to the position in the "Essex order of merit" to girls who have put one or both Southend schools as a preference. It does not matter whether they live in Southend or Chelmsford or anywhere else.
The unfortunate thing about this is that the "order of preference" is not taken into account.
So, if you put down schools in the following order (again for example)
Chelmsford
Westcliff
Southend
Sandon
and your daughters mark gives her a Southend place but not Chelmsford or Westcliff, then your daughter will get the Southend place.
However, if a friend of your daughter has the following preferences:
Southend
Westcliff
Chelmsford
Sandon
and that friend achieves the passmark, she would not necessarily get a place at Southend, even though it is the first preference, because the places go strictly according to points achieved, no matter where on the preference list the school is. The only exception is that if you were to put the comprehensive above the grammar school and you were then to achieve the right points for the grammar you would not be offered the grammar.
As far as my opinion on schools is concerned, Southend is brillient. They are all good at getting excellent results but attitudes to the girls would appear different. Chelmsford, I have frequently heard, is only interested in medics, lawyers, etc and does not have great opinions of girls who aspire to much less. Westcliff is great but has had bullying problems in the past (so I am told). Southend respects pupils for who they are. It allows girls to develop their own tastes and abilities with encouragement but without pushing them into areas they are not naturally headed for.
The big difference between the grammars and comps, however, is that the grammars have extremely high expectations and there is praise only for those to reach those staggering expectations (in other words the A and A* all the way pupils) whereas the best comps praise and encourage each child for smaller steps along the way.
If you do not understand anything that I have written here or have further questions then please feel free to ask.
Now, to answer your questions.
If you were to apply for the following schools (for example) in the following order:
1. Chelmsford
2. Southend
3. Westcliff
4. Sandon
Your daughter would be allocated to the first school which, according to its criteria, would be able to take her. Therefore, if your daughter has a score that puts her in the top 500 (or thereabouts) candidates, she is likely to achieve a score for Chelmsford and would be offered a place there.
As far as Southend and Westcliff are concerned, you usually need a few more points for Westcliff than you do for Southend. Thereforefore, if your daughter, with the above choices, did not gain a place at Chelmsford but had the right score for Southend (she would need to be in the top 900 candidates or thereabouts, then she would be offered a place at Southend.
However, because Westclif usually require a few more points than Southend, if your daughter did not get the Southend place, then it is likely that she would be offered Sandon.
In the Southend area there are 150 places at each of Westcliff and Southend. 115 (maximum) of these places is offered to children in the catchment area who have passed the exam (obviously, in the order of points with which they passed).
The passmark is set each year at, purely for example, 100 and no child will be admitted below that passmark. In reality it means that if, in the catchment area, 120 girls score above 100, then 5 of them would not automatically be given a place at one of their grammars.
Next, the rest of the places are offered out according to the position in the "Essex order of merit" to girls who have put one or both Southend schools as a preference. It does not matter whether they live in Southend or Chelmsford or anywhere else.
The unfortunate thing about this is that the "order of preference" is not taken into account.
So, if you put down schools in the following order (again for example)
Chelmsford
Westcliff
Southend
Sandon
and your daughters mark gives her a Southend place but not Chelmsford or Westcliff, then your daughter will get the Southend place.
However, if a friend of your daughter has the following preferences:
Southend
Westcliff
Chelmsford
Sandon
and that friend achieves the passmark, she would not necessarily get a place at Southend, even though it is the first preference, because the places go strictly according to points achieved, no matter where on the preference list the school is. The only exception is that if you were to put the comprehensive above the grammar school and you were then to achieve the right points for the grammar you would not be offered the grammar.
As far as my opinion on schools is concerned, Southend is brillient. They are all good at getting excellent results but attitudes to the girls would appear different. Chelmsford, I have frequently heard, is only interested in medics, lawyers, etc and does not have great opinions of girls who aspire to much less. Westcliff is great but has had bullying problems in the past (so I am told). Southend respects pupils for who they are. It allows girls to develop their own tastes and abilities with encouragement but without pushing them into areas they are not naturally headed for.
The big difference between the grammars and comps, however, is that the grammars have extremely high expectations and there is praise only for those to reach those staggering expectations (in other words the A and A* all the way pupils) whereas the best comps praise and encourage each child for smaller steps along the way.
If you do not understand anything that I have written here or have further questions then please feel free to ask.
Thanks so much. You have explained it really well. I thought Southend seemed very friendly and the girls I spoke to were very approachable with good eye contact and positive body language, this wasn't the case at Westcliff but perhaps we just met a different personaliity and it takes all sorts to make a school. My primary concren is that my daughter is happy and wants to go to school so I guess I can try to guide her but ultimately the choice will be hers. Out of interest do you know how many out of catchment girls were admitted to the southend schools last year?
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Essex girfl
Southend Girls
I don't but Ill research it.
I will say that in the past few years only around 80 or so have "passed" in catchment which left a lot of places for outside catchment pupils. For 2005 entry, however, this was not the case and all 115 in catchment places were allocated, thus leaving fewer for out of catchment.
Will let you know if and as soon as I am able to find out an answer for you.
I will say that in the past few years only around 80 or so have "passed" in catchment which left a lot of places for outside catchment pupils. For 2005 entry, however, this was not the case and all 115 in catchment places were allocated, thus leaving fewer for out of catchment.
Will let you know if and as soon as I am able to find out an answer for you.
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Essex girl
Info re Southend Girls
Hi there,
Have researched!
The number of places offered outside catchment is 36 (including one successful appeal). Number of appeals was 40. The appeal process is supposed to be unbiased but, believe you me, the number of pupils appealing does definitely have a bearing on the successes.
Have researched!
The number of places offered outside catchment is 36 (including one successful appeal). Number of appeals was 40. The appeal process is supposed to be unbiased but, believe you me, the number of pupils appealing does definitely have a bearing on the successes.
Dear Essex Girl
You may be interested in the following.
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/documents/ad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... idance.pdf
I Know its a Bucks guidance, but it is a nationwide legal framework.
Perhaps Essex has a different spin on it? Parts 5 and 7 are interesting [ children with concentration difficulties, dyslexia and dyspraxia ]
Its not something Bucks publicise
Patricia
You may be interested in the following.
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/documents/ad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... idance.pdf
I Know its a Bucks guidance, but it is a nationwide legal framework.
Perhaps Essex has a different spin on it? Parts 5 and 7 are interesting [ children with concentration difficulties, dyslexia and dyspraxia ]
Its not something Bucks publicise
Patricia