Scottish University Fees

[hermanmunster]

Looks like the SNP will be getting a majority in the scottish parliament after the elections yesterday. There appears to be a big funding gap for education amongst other things, they are clearly keen not to charge scottish students but inevitably will be charging more than the current £1800 for the students from elsewehere in the UK. Anyone any idea how much it will be?

have one child wanting to apply there simply because he likes the universities.

My thoughts are:
1 if it is less than english universities ie say £6000 then there may be a lot of applications..

2 If it is £9000 like england, then the scottish universities may wish to have english students - although some have made it clear that they give preference to Scots.... £9k per student may well be more than they can extract for a scottish student - tricky dilemma for the universities.

[Snowdrops]

So...................... we pay the Scottish government to educate to university level through out taxes AND we pay them again for our children to attend the university whilst the Scots go free (no pun intended!).

How on earth can this be fair? (if this comes to fruition).

[hermanmunster]

actually that is what is happening at the moment. To go to say Glasgow costs a Scottish student nothing but costs an english or welsh student £1800 a year - cheaper one notes than english unis at about £3000.

Whether hordes apply there just for £1200 difference, I am not sure - or will there be hordes applying if the scots settle for - say - £5000. hence £4000 a year less than in england. OK so they may be lots of non scots wanting to go there but there are only so many places.....

If they settle for £9000 per english student, will the scots be able to get into their local unis?

[Looking for help]

It is generally a four year course at the scottish universities, so £7200 compared with £9000 in England at the moment.

Lets not forget while we are being biased , that Scottsh kids coming to England get to pay too - not that they would bother coming, obviously .

I am not a fan of Alec Salmond, as a Scottish person living in England, and hope that independence is not the best way forward for Scotland. However, if he can keep prescriptions, tuition fees and long term elderly care free, you can see why people keep voting for him.

[hermanmunster]

on the way in to work I was hearing him talk about having a referendum on independence - if they voted yes then england and scotland become separate countries withing the EU - hence scotland will not be able to charge english students in the same way that they cannot charge french / german / swiss / french west indian students at present.

[Snowdrops]

I'm all for Scotland having independence, if that's what they want (my line goes all the way back, on many branches, to the Isle of Skye - a MacDonald descendant - and Haddington/Edinburgh, as far as the records take us, so I have no bones with the Scottish per se!), but if they have independence they must also expect to fund their own system (which includes the wonderful free prescription, care for the elderly and free university education). Somehow I don't think they'll be so keen if that was part and parcel of the terms!

[Looking for help]

I think Alec Salmond has it all worked out, SD - they know they won't get anything from Westminster, but there won't be any tax collected by Westminster either.

Any how, it will take a referendum, and if memory serves me correctly, I was only a child, the last time something like 66% of the electoral role had to vote for independence, which would be avery unlikely outcome

my line goes all the way back, on many branches, to the Isle of Skye - a MacDonald descendant - and Haddington/Edinburgh, as far as the records take us, so I have no bones with the Scottish per se!)

Not nearly so posh myself, just a working girl from Glasgow

[Snowdrops]

Ah, but, LFH, with the clearances, as you will know, many of the Sky crofters moved to Glasgow, as did my 2 x g grandfather (and then my great granddad and mother to Manchester ). What's the betting yours started out elsewhere first?

Back to Scotty education and the funding thereof! As you rightly say, there won't be any tax collected, but I bet (and I really don't know any figures on this) the government pays out more to the Scottish contingent than it collects in taxes - so I don't think Scotland's contribution will be missed - I'm open to being corrected (see comment previously on figures ) on this, if anyone has any hard statistics.

[another mother]

As I understand it (also a Scot and went to uni there - DD keen to do so too) the current funding system for Scottish unis is completely unsustainable - although this wasn't addressed in the campaign except by the Tories - and so they will have to raise fees. However all parties and particularly the SNP have pledged not to do for homegrown students and they can't for EU students who have to pay the same as the students from within the country who also pay nothing. So it will have to be the English - and those from beyond the EU.

According to a piece by Ian Jack I think some weeks ago, the sum of £6250 a year is being mooted (is currently around £1800 I think) - over four years that would work out around the same as paying £9000 in england for 3 years (though a year's more accommodation and living expenses). Not sure how soon that could come through - with our luck (elder dd will be the first year to face the £9000 a year fees south of the border) it will come in at the same time in 2012. But I suppose there could be a year before it gets through - which must lead to a flood of applications from England!

I heard a figure that there were 39 applicants per place for English at Edinburgh this year - may not be true but it was c 26 last year. And there is a perceived bias against students from the south of england - I am not sure that's legal and I know the university would deny it but there is no doubt DD and her contemporaries are being told strongly it's a wasted application and not to go near it.

Of course if the fee rise goes ahead the irony will be that the Scottish unis will need English students paying that figure. As it is, the best departments risk losing their best academics to English institutions who can pay more - I have it on very good authority that there has already been poaching going on.

There is going to be a huge discrepancy for this next generation - those Scots educated in Scotland without fee debts, the Welsh students paid for wherever they go (and something similar (though I'm hazy on the details) for the Northern Irish). No wonder DD's very clever friends are looking at the states or elsewhere..Or thinking of emigrating post degree!

It's hard to see how policies like these won't in the long run lead to a very divided country and the break up of the Union - but of course that may be the Tory plan all along.
Getting bitter!!

[hermanmunster]

have been reading up this now and you are right, it is totally unsustainable for the scots, the fees being set at 9k in england have created a £300m funding gap.... The current plans are to charge all non scot and non english students ie EU students a "service fee" which will bring in some money - apparently the irish do this too. The estimate that that may bring them 22m a year - still some 280m to go.