Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of ability?
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Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of ability?
Our son passed the 11+ (Kent) but has not been offered a place at any of the selective schools on our list. Three of them he needed a good score for (407+) which he didn't achieve - he got 392. One the catchment hasn't come out as far as us - currently 1/3 mile away. We will be appealing this latter one but wonder if it is worth including evidence of ability?
His scores on Kent test were 140 VR, 125 NVR, 127 Maths.
On CATs he got 141 VR, 137 NVR & 118 Maths.
Do CATs equate to Kent 11+ as I have seen some children with much higher Kent test scores but with lower CAT scores and am wondering if our son under-performed on the day.
And would it be worth using that information as further evidence of why a grammar school really is the right one for him?
Also the particular school we are appealing for has an engineering specialism. Could we use the CAT NVR score to boost our case?
His scores on Kent test were 140 VR, 125 NVR, 127 Maths.
On CATs he got 141 VR, 137 NVR & 118 Maths.
Do CATs equate to Kent 11+ as I have seen some children with much higher Kent test scores but with lower CAT scores and am wondering if our son under-performed on the day.
And would it be worth using that information as further evidence of why a grammar school really is the right one for him?
Also the particular school we are appealing for has an engineering specialism. Could we use the CAT NVR score to boost our case?
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
well i know that cats are standardised to a national cohort and so is the kent test - many 11 plus areas use a local chort to standardise - so in this respect they are more similar than some.
I appealed last year to a school that used a cut of score - my dd passed but was was a few points from it. I based my appeal round why that particular school would be suitable for my dd - specialisms - ease of transport - her first choice etc but i did also include 2 letters from her school. One was a general recommendation from the head but the other was from one of her year 6 teachers who confirmed she was already at level 5 at the time of my appeal. I wasnt sure weather to include it as my appeal was basically an over-sub one but i decided after chating with people to include it. I was pleased i did as one of the panel asked me how i thought my dd would cope as she hadnt met the cut off score! I referred them to this letter and the school rep actually did say at this point to the panel member that mine was not a non-qual appeal as my dd passed. This letter was only a very small part of my appeal and was just put in as an appendix without much written about it by me.
Check out the feedback area in the appeals forum as you can see what others have done there.
I think generally if there was a reason why your dc did not score higher on the day you can expand more about regarding his ability.
I am sure someone else will be slong with more advice and also help regarding the NVR score.
I appealed last year to a school that used a cut of score - my dd passed but was was a few points from it. I based my appeal round why that particular school would be suitable for my dd - specialisms - ease of transport - her first choice etc but i did also include 2 letters from her school. One was a general recommendation from the head but the other was from one of her year 6 teachers who confirmed she was already at level 5 at the time of my appeal. I wasnt sure weather to include it as my appeal was basically an over-sub one but i decided after chating with people to include it. I was pleased i did as one of the panel asked me how i thought my dd would cope as she hadnt met the cut off score! I referred them to this letter and the school rep actually did say at this point to the panel member that mine was not a non-qual appeal as my dd passed. This letter was only a very small part of my appeal and was just put in as an appendix without much written about it by me.
Check out the feedback area in the appeals forum as you can see what others have done there.
I think generally if there was a reason why your dc did not score higher on the day you can expand more about regarding his ability.
I am sure someone else will be slong with more advice and also help regarding the NVR score.
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
Has he been offered any school on your original form? You may be able to include detail of how the engineering school would better suit him when stacked against the one you've been offered. Are you in a solely super selective area?
Hope things work out for you.
Hope things work out for you.
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
No, he wasn't offered any of the schools on the CAF.
We are including stuff about the engineering specialism. The one we have been offered has a sports specialism.
Yes we are in a super selective or comp area.
At the moment we are praying that the reshuffle on 11 April (?) will sort him out.
Have been reading a few bits about PAN and some other acronym which I've forgotten. How do I go about finding the PAN and how many pupils they currently have in each year?
We are including stuff about the engineering specialism. The one we have been offered has a sports specialism.
Yes we are in a super selective or comp area.
At the moment we are praying that the reshuffle on 11 April (?) will sort him out.
Have been reading a few bits about PAN and some other acronym which I've forgotten. How do I go about finding the PAN and how many pupils they currently have in each year?
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
It depends on which schools you are looking at. I have found one school very helpful and upfront in sharing information direct from their admissions officer/secretary and others much less helpful!
Are you in North Kent?
When you get an appeal date you can then ask any reasonable questions before the actual appeal, and expect that this would be a reasonable query.
Are you in North Kent?
When you get an appeal date you can then ask any reasonable questions before the actual appeal, and expect that this would be a reasonable query.
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
Every local authority publishes a booklet with the admission number for each school. If you're in Kent, see: https://shareweb.kent.gov.uk/Documents/ ... ook-11.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you want more detailed information, such as the number of pupils in each year, the Code of Practice makes clear that you are entitled to ask:
If you want more detailed information, such as the number of pupils in each year, the Code of Practice makes clear that you are entitled to ask:
Appellants are appealing over a matter that is very important to them. Admission authorities must give appellants appropriate guidance and information before the hearing to enable them to prepare their case for appeal ...... and, having regard to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information Act 2000, must respond to any reasonable requests for information about the school or the admissions process that the appellant may think they need to help them with this preparation.
Etienne
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
Aha - just what I need - and I had it all the time, just hadn't noticed it was there before. Thank you
Yes, we are in North Kent.
Yes, we are in North Kent.
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
Well we are off to appeal. After the first reshuffle in April I was told we were 7th on the waiting list but the May reshuffle has not opened up a place for us. I can find out on Friday where we are now on the waiting list.
Our appeal is set for 27th May. To be honest, I can't see how an over-subscription appeal would ever be successful but we'll give it a shot. Our biggest hope is that they are over PAN for every year so why can't they be over PAN for his year? Everything else is on the lines of why this school is right for our child - and surely everyone is going to be saying the same?
Our appeal is set for 27th May. To be honest, I can't see how an over-subscription appeal would ever be successful but we'll give it a shot. Our biggest hope is that they are over PAN for every year so why can't they be over PAN for his year? Everything else is on the lines of why this school is right for our child - and surely everyone is going to be saying the same?
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
make sure you are prepared for any questions you may get asked, i wrote a list of posibles with the answers and went over them many times before the appeal - so my answers were fluent - good luck
One of ther reasons why a school had years where they are over PAN is because they have teken dc' on appeal. You can ask the school rep at the appeal if they have gone over pan before without problems then why would it not be possible to go over this year.
At my appeal i posed this question and the school rep admitted they could go 8to 10 over without a problem.
One of ther reasons why a school had years where they are over PAN is because they have teken dc' on appeal. You can ask the school rep at the appeal if they have gone over pan before without problems then why would it not be possible to go over this year.
At my appeal i posed this question and the school rep admitted they could go 8to 10 over without a problem.
Re: Appeal on over-subscription - include evidence of abilit
We had an over-subscription appeal last year for a school that never went over PAN and where no appeals had been won that anyone could remember. We went through the code, read everything on this forum and researched, researched, researched. By the time we came to prepare our case it seemed to us that an oversubscription appeal had to have the following:
1. You can demonstrate that your DC is working at a level that is consistent with them achieving a high enough score to have gained an automatic place at the school.
2. That they under-performed in the 11 plus and that this underperfomance was extraordinary.
3. That there are mitigating circumstances to explain that underperformance
and finally and maybe most importantly that this is the right school for them.
Obviously to demonstrate the above you have to have loads of evidence of their academic ability. If this ties in with any specialisms the school has then all the better. It doesn't matter what evidence you have as long as you have some sort of supporting evidence for it. For us, the school provided NFER CAT scores, Reading Age report, and the Head came to the appeal to give evidence.
Prepare and prepare for questions. We went through all the feedback here and checked we could answer all the questions that seemed to consistently come up.
You could make sure that you have a copy of the prospectus with you and, when you get the school's case, check the things they say about overcrowding etc with parents of pupils already there. The Presenting Officer at our DS's school said things we now know not to be true! Having said that, I do think you need to tread carefully, the panel aren't daft and you do need them to like you. We didn't pounce on the PO just raised eyebrows and looked at one another in surprise when he said things we weren't happy with because we just sensed that if it turned into a scrap we'd lose. If you have a group part-one however try to raise as many queries as you can because it is less personal at that stage. The schools will not lose at stage one but the panel will make a judgement about the PO at that stage. That said, we went to two appeals and the PO at the one we lost was very straight, answered questions honestly even when it was going to help us and I suspect most are the same as him.
Good luck, I do think there is an element of luck in it but I hope you get the decision you need.
1. You can demonstrate that your DC is working at a level that is consistent with them achieving a high enough score to have gained an automatic place at the school.
2. That they under-performed in the 11 plus and that this underperfomance was extraordinary.
3. That there are mitigating circumstances to explain that underperformance
and finally and maybe most importantly that this is the right school for them.
Obviously to demonstrate the above you have to have loads of evidence of their academic ability. If this ties in with any specialisms the school has then all the better. It doesn't matter what evidence you have as long as you have some sort of supporting evidence for it. For us, the school provided NFER CAT scores, Reading Age report, and the Head came to the appeal to give evidence.
Prepare and prepare for questions. We went through all the feedback here and checked we could answer all the questions that seemed to consistently come up.
You could make sure that you have a copy of the prospectus with you and, when you get the school's case, check the things they say about overcrowding etc with parents of pupils already there. The Presenting Officer at our DS's school said things we now know not to be true! Having said that, I do think you need to tread carefully, the panel aren't daft and you do need them to like you. We didn't pounce on the PO just raised eyebrows and looked at one another in surprise when he said things we weren't happy with because we just sensed that if it turned into a scrap we'd lose. If you have a group part-one however try to raise as many queries as you can because it is less personal at that stage. The schools will not lose at stage one but the panel will make a judgement about the PO at that stage. That said, we went to two appeals and the PO at the one we lost was very straight, answered questions honestly even when it was going to help us and I suspect most are the same as him.
Good luck, I do think there is an element of luck in it but I hope you get the decision you need.