Quandary over LEA preferences

[sss]

Hi
I was wondering over the merits of placing KE Handsworth above Five Ways on the LEA form. No-one I know has a crystal ball out there that works, as far as I can tell, but is it likely that the 'Handsworth results' will perhaps just MAYBE higher than Five Ways for a change & hence my LEA positioning will not be wasted?
All views welcome (particularly from soothsayers).

[um]

Last score 'in' for FW was 223 last year, and 211 for KE Handsworth.

That is a significant difference of 12 points.

I think it unlikely that these 'positions' could be reversed this year.

[no_ball]

Cutting to the chase then, does that make FW a better school than handsworth then or is it because there are fewer places at FW?

[um]

Not at all.

In fact KE Hands was the only Bham Grammar school given 'outstanding' by Ofsted for the teaching section- others were 'good'.

KEFW is mixed so will naturally have more applicants.

It is also closer to more middle class areas (Birmingham S and W, Solihull, Bromsgrove, etc) than KEHands so will be a higher preference for more people.

For those using public transport, it is in a safer area than KEHands and thus, again, may make a higher spot on the preference form.

I think we can conclude that both are superb schools, and I would be happy to send my children to either of them (although clearly couldn't send the boys to KEHands )

[reeyah]

I don't understand why KE Foundation say it doesn't make any difference where u put which KE school???

[KenR]

I don't understand why KE Foundation say it doesn't make any difference where u put which KE school???

What they mean is that you won't be be given priority just because you put a particular KE school 1st choice other other parents who put it lower down the priority list.

The key thing is to put your schools down in your personal priority order.

In particular think very carefully about the relative priorities of KE schools and Bishop Vesey/Sutton Girls.

Every year after results are published we always find there are some parents who have screwed this up as a result of a silly preference. The following are actual examples:-

1. Parents who child passed the KE Camp Hill Girls exam but who was allocated a place at a local Comp because they put this as their 1st choice wanted to guarantee a backstop!

2. Parents who child failed to reach the pass mark for KE 5-ways or Camp Hill but passed the KE Handsworth Girls mark but who was allocated a place at a local Comp because they didn't put KE Handsworth as one of their preferences.

3. Parents whose child just failed the entry mark for KE Grammars but passed the Sutton Girls pass mark but they didn't put Sutton on their preference list and so were allocated a local comp.

4. Parents who put KE Handsworths Girl above KE 5-Ways on the list were allocated their preference even though they reaklly wanted KE 5-ways

5. Parents whose child failed to reach the pass mark for KE 5-ways or Camp Hill Boys but passed the KE Aston mark but who was allocated a place at a local Comp because they didn't put KE Aston as one of their preferences.

Needless to say there was nothing that could be done to correct the mistake.

For B/Ham parents there should not be a problem as they have 6 choices - the only potential issue is for parents in say Worcs where they have only 3 choices and you need to put the local comp down as you last choice. In this case it does require some careful thought

[xyzzy]

I don't understand why KE Foundation say it doesn't make any difference where u put which KE school???

Because it's true.

Your child will be allocated a place at the first school whose admission criteria they meet.

The reason heads say "you must put us first" is one of:

• They don't understand the process themselves (not uncommon)
• They are explaining, badly, the point that if you put "1. Local Comp / 2. KE---" then you are going to the local comp come what may.

For KE Schools, the point is that if you put "1. KE Handsworth / 2. KE Five Ways" you're going to Handsworth if you pass the exam, even if your mark would have got you into Five Ways (assuming, as is likely to be the case, that the last-child-admitted score for FW will be higher than for Handsworth). Putting "1. KE Five Ways / 2. KE Handsworth" does not in any way reduce your chances of going to Handsworth, but means that if you want to go to FW and get the score, that's where you're going.

Some people decline to enter their children for the KE exams because they believe that they will only get a place at the good local comp if they put it first, and therefore there was no way to construct a preference form including the grammars. No amount of explaining the process to them will shift them from this belief.

There is endless playground gossip which attempts to argue that somehow, really, behind the scenes, preferences are used to determine eligibility. The algorithm used for allocation is documented (although annoyingly I can't put my hand to it immediately) and not hard to derive yourself. It does not involve preferences until final determination. Your child will go to the school you place highest up the list for which you meet the criteria. There is no hidden agenda, no sensible way to "game" the form: you should put the schools down in your order of preference, ensuring that the sixth slot contains a school you could live with if the worst came to the worst and which you will get in to (otherwise, you're going to a school in special measures ten miles away).

[UmSusu]

Xyzzy
The Problem is that some heads continue to state that you must put them first in order to be considered. I went to an open day recently where the head said exactly that. I tried to challenge this and said the LEA admissions state differently, but he insisted that no matter which category you were in the schools admission criteria, you will not get a place unless you put the them first.

I know it is not true but I gave up Now our primary is asking for a copy of our preferences for their records and I have refused to send it because I am paranoid that as a feeder school they will inform them of where they are on the list.

[um]

UmSusu - if that Head was the Head of CHB, then he is right as it is technically the 'hardest' Grammar to get into!

I am surprised that any Primary wants copies of preferences and would be suspicious about info-sharing with the Catholic Secondary too

[UmSusu]

um, I can see why they might say it as a grammar school, especially CHB, but this was a Catholic secondary. I suggested that we would want to put them down after the grammars but he insisted if we did that we would not get a place. My children go to one of their feeder schools so I am suspicious about giving them any info. I did ask DS to politely tell his teacher that we had not quite decided and preferred to keep our choices private - he told them my mum said it is none of your business!
Honestly, the more I observe his behaviour I start to doubt that he has even the social intelligence to go to a grammar