11+ state schools and fairness

Petitpois · Post by **Petitpois** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:54 pm

This report states on P.23

"The relationship between ethnicity, literacy
and numeracy is very strong and specific cases
extremely negative; for example, being Black and
male appears to have a greater impact on levels
of numeracy than having a learning disability."

Just stop for second and re read that for a second? You can have a Learning Disability and it will have less of an impact. Just embarrassing and a national scandal.

My understanding is that white boys from low income families are falling behind significantly too by age 16. the report says if you are on FSM and white then just 28.7% will achieve 5 GCSE's by 16. No wonder they are kicking the doors down at Five Ways

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/site ... ecsumm.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2015 update
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/site ... ng_acc.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JaneEyre · Post by **JaneEyre** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:45 pm

Hi Petit pois,

I am not sure that the FSM and white are kicking the doors down at Five ways…

When I visited the school several months ago, the school was really spotless!!!

I really do not understand why you have a grudge against FW!!

!! You make me laugh, but it is a sad laugh…

Now we can wait for Worldcup’s intervention!

quasimodo · Post by **quasimodo** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:40 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 14226.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

succeed · Post by **succeed** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:03 am

What a 'helpful' article - particularly the picture selection which you've worked hard to source - that leaves us all in no doubt whose 'kicking down the doors' at FW

Petitpois · Post by **Petitpois** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:10 am

JaneEyre wrote:Hi Petit pois,

I really do not understand why you have a grudge against FW!! !! You make me laugh, but it is a sad laugh…

I have absolutely no grudge against FW. Yes I do display an unwarranted snobbishness towards FW, but no less so than say someone from Solihull choosing KES stratford over CHB, mainly for social reasons rather than academic performance.

Five ways represents one of the few really "strong pathways" out of and away from Sandwell mediocrity, available to poorer white working class families. When I say kicking the door down, I mean there is a real strong aspiration for the school across all sections, because people understand clearly what the alternatives are.

If you the parent of a lad (either a black or white lad), then the reports I posted links for and quasimodo link, must surely give enormous pause for thought (and confirm what most already know).

BTW despite HGS strong academic results, parents in many cases have an all or nothing mindset in relation to FW, ruling out HGS.....period

All I am really saying is if I had a chance of a grammar (any grammar) in this part of the world and my DC was a boy, I would think very very very strongly about not taking that opportunity.

Jane I have re checked what I wrote and I think you must have concluded that I was accusing the white boys at FW of vandalism e.g. kicking doors down. I just was using it as metaphor to describe many Sandwell parents desperate search for a decent education institution for their boys, that's all.

Petitpois · Post by **Petitpois** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:16 am

It is still Friday where I am, even though this forum is saying it is Saturday, when these posts go up. It is NOT!!!

JaneEyre · Post by **JaneEyre** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:16 am

Petitpois wrote: Jane I have re checked what I wrote and I think you must have concluded that I was accusing the white boys at FW of vandalism e.g. kicking doors down. I just was using it as metaphor to describe many Sandwell parents desperate search for a decent education institution for their boys, that's all.

I have to acknowledge that it is incredible the number of phrases and idioms I have learnt since you joined this forum…

and while reading your post, I did check the idiom ‘kick something down’ and here is what found:
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/kick+down" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
… and I did not think further, about some metaphorical meaning.

Petitpois wrote: Yes I do display an unwarranted snobbishness towards FW, but no less so than say someone from Solihull choosing KES stratford over CHB, mainly for social reasons rather than academic performance.

If some parents chose a school for their DC basing their choice upon the ethnicity of the majority of its pupils, it is their loss!

And as the article posted by Quasimodo exemplifies*, pupils from certain ethnicity will just work hard. Therefore, personally, I prefer my DS to be with such pupils. In fact, when my DS started at his GS, I was surprised to realise that a pupil in his class had already a maths GCSE in his pocket at 11 years old… as for the Japanese boy who has now migrated to the United States, he was flying so high! It is just great to try to ‘catch up’ with such individuals… even if it is impossible as they are just so much ahead!

*quote from the article: In contrast, Chinese pupils perform exceptionally regardless of wealth, with 76.8 per cent of those on free school meals achieving the GCSE threshold.

succeed · Post by **succeed** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:02 am

JaneEyre wrote:*quote from the article: In contrast, Chinese pupils perform exceptionally regardless of wealth, with 76.8 per cent of those on free school meals achieving the GCSE threshold

Whilst the figures are hugely impressive, context is vital to give them meaning... apparently there were only 168 Chinese families counted ( across the UK) for the study

.(briefly mentioned in this bbc article highlighting low achievement for white fsm)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/3 ... ity-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Petitpois wrote:This report states on P.23

"The relationship between ethnicity, literacy
and numeracy is very strong and specific cases
extremely negative; for example, being Black and
male appears to have a greater impact on levels
of numeracy than having a learning disability."

Just stop for second and re read that for a second? You can have a Learning Disability and it will have less of an impact. Just embarrassing and a national scandal.

Quite depressing, but may not be the fault of the schools entirely, as your quote infers, although all the issues do need addressing :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rants.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Petitpois · Post by **Petitpois** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:22 am

Must be brummy vernacular. My snobbishness, is not a ethnic thing. I could not give a kipper about that. (Surely that one is widely used).

No it is simply a class thing. If I had the money I would send them private. My belief is that class discrimination remains rife. So it is a case of which school best gets the "cuckoo in the the nest'.

Many will recoil from that as a mindset, but then they haven't had the pleasure of school's in Witton and a comp fed by the wyrly birch estate, in the 1980's.

It is simple for me, get the best school, based on results, then aim for the cohort with the highest socio economic characteristics. My view also has the virtue that it is honest even if some think it is mistaken

succeed · Post by **succeed** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:29 am

PP - Personally, I find your language inflammatory and posting stats without context is not always helpful.

11+ state schools and fairness

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