Southend High School for Boys
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kram07
Southend High School for Boys
Would be very interested in peoples thoughts and feedback, both good and bad on Southend High School for Boys....how does this compare to Westcliff and Kegs.....
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Guest
Whether fairly or unfairly, it, along with Southend High School for Girls, is sometimes referred to as a "super-comp"! The 30% of children attending Southend HSB from outside the area have to achieve an overall pass mark of roughly 70% overall. The remaining 70% who live in Southend only need to achieve 50%. Compare this to Kegs and the Royal Grammar in Colchester where the pass-mark is approx. 85%. Kegs and Colchester cream off the top 3%, Southend sets its bar considerably lower because its admissions policy is so skewed toward those children who live in Southend.
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Essex Girl
SHSB
But look at the results they get!! You expect fantastic results from Colchester and Chelmsford grammars because they are so highly selective (no catchment areas) and if they didn't get such fantastic results you would be quite right to ask why.
However, the Southend Grammars, both Westcliff and Southend, get extremely good results (all the grammars, Chelmsford, Colchester and Southend's two get GCSE results at 90 to 100% pass rate, including maths and English.
A level results in all schools are excellent too. I have always felt that if the Southend/Westcliff grammars can achieve the results they get with pupils whose 11+ scores are somewhere behind Chelmsford/Colchester then the teaching must be excellent and the pupils must respond well to that teaching. The Ofsted reports seem to bear this out.
Another thing I would like to add is that in real terms, although it is true that a child needs less marks for a Southend grammar than for a Chelmsford or Colchester grammar there are obviously children who live in the catchment area of a Southend grammar who would have had enough 11 plus ponts to go to Chelmsford or Colchester if they had wanted. What is the point though, when they have really good grammars on their doorstep?
I am sure Colchester and Chelmsford are excellent and I have never heard either SHSB or SHSG called a super comp (and nothing against comps, I have a child at one myself) but I think its a bit of an insult because no way can you compare the marks of these grammars with 99% of comps in Essex. The grammars results are far superior.
We tend to take things on face value. Believe you me, Chelmsford and Colchester have a far more "upper class" intake. More children from preps and privates (some of whom were well tutored too), whereas the Southend schools (all four of them) have more children from a varied background.
As I said above, you have to judge the results, etc, of a school at least partly on its intake and this really is something to think about.
However, the Southend Grammars, both Westcliff and Southend, get extremely good results (all the grammars, Chelmsford, Colchester and Southend's two get GCSE results at 90 to 100% pass rate, including maths and English.
A level results in all schools are excellent too. I have always felt that if the Southend/Westcliff grammars can achieve the results they get with pupils whose 11+ scores are somewhere behind Chelmsford/Colchester then the teaching must be excellent and the pupils must respond well to that teaching. The Ofsted reports seem to bear this out.
Another thing I would like to add is that in real terms, although it is true that a child needs less marks for a Southend grammar than for a Chelmsford or Colchester grammar there are obviously children who live in the catchment area of a Southend grammar who would have had enough 11 plus ponts to go to Chelmsford or Colchester if they had wanted. What is the point though, when they have really good grammars on their doorstep?
I am sure Colchester and Chelmsford are excellent and I have never heard either SHSB or SHSG called a super comp (and nothing against comps, I have a child at one myself) but I think its a bit of an insult because no way can you compare the marks of these grammars with 99% of comps in Essex. The grammars results are far superior.
We tend to take things on face value. Believe you me, Chelmsford and Colchester have a far more "upper class" intake. More children from preps and privates (some of whom were well tutored too), whereas the Southend schools (all four of them) have more children from a varied background.
As I said above, you have to judge the results, etc, of a school at least partly on its intake and this really is something to think about.
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Guest
Just to be clear, the Southend Grammars are fantastic schools by any standard but here's some detail. A friend of ours is a teacher at the Southend girls grammar and she actually referred to it as a super-comp, in relation to the Colchester, Chelmsford and Westcliff schools. As I understand it, about 10 years ago, the Southend MP Sir Teddy Taylor negotiated a Grammar school catchment area for Southend, which means that 100 of 144 places at SHSG are reserved for girls living in the Southend area. The other 44 places are open to any girl inside or outside the Southend catchment area. The first thing that happens in the selection process is that the 44 girls finishing highest in the order of merit and having selected SHSG are offered a place. Importantly, this can include girls in the Southend catchment area. The remaining 100 places are then offered to girls who have not already been offered a place and who reside in Southend. Significantly, in 10 years, girls living in Southend have never achieved more than the 100 places specifically reserved for them. This is caused by the relatively small number of girls that the Southend Girls schools can select from and is not in any way a reflection on the girls living in the Southend area. I’m certain that the standard of teaching at all the Grammars in Essex is comparable, having children at both the Chelmsford Grammars but I don’t believe that the volume of work set and pace of teaching can be the same when you are dealing with different levels of ability, however marginal. This is borne out by the league tables. At Colchester (Girls) 80% of all GCSEs are A/A* grade (2004). At Southend (Girls) 55% of GCSEs are at A/A* grade. This measure would place Colchester 48th out of approx 4500 schools nationally and SHSG 281st. I have no agenda here and am simply trying to give a dispassionate, illustrative comparison of the Chelmsford/Colchester Grammars in comparison to those in Southend as requested by the original poster.
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Essex Girl
response to Guest
You do have some valid points, guest, but it is both the Westcliff and Southend grammars (the four of them) that have this catchment rool, not just the "Southend" schools.
I have various friends with children at different grammar schools and have spoken both to them and indeed their children in times gone by. There does not seem to be a diference in the volume of work set. The pace of teaching may be a different story.
As to the league tables, as I said previously, you cannot expect the four Southend grammars to compete, results wise, with Chelmsford or Colchester, for obvious reasons.
I don't think that Southend Girls coming 281st out of 4,500 nationally warrants calling it a "super-comp" instead of a grammar.
It may be that I have a child taught by your friend at SHSG and I am sure that she is an excellent teacher. Personally though, if this is how she feels about the school, I would rather she resigned. To me, she is insulting the school, she is insulting the very intelligent girls in the school (and there are many of them) and does not deserve to teach there.
I am not offended by your comments, guest, don't get me wrong. However, I do feel it is extreme snobbery for someone to appear to be saying that these schools are not good enough.
A big plus for SHSG anyway, experience tells me that when it comes to happy pupils, SGSG has a huge edge over CCHS (the Chelmsford one).
A gifted daughter of a friend of mine went there. She said it was a very good school but she hated it because they would simply not allow her to be who she felt she was.
The pressure, she said, was horrendous. To quote her ... "Its a bit like being on a lifeboat in choppy water. Every now and then its man overboard and everyone has to go to the rescue and save the poor soul before she drowns on work related stress."
I have various friends with children at different grammar schools and have spoken both to them and indeed their children in times gone by. There does not seem to be a diference in the volume of work set. The pace of teaching may be a different story.
As to the league tables, as I said previously, you cannot expect the four Southend grammars to compete, results wise, with Chelmsford or Colchester, for obvious reasons.
I don't think that Southend Girls coming 281st out of 4,500 nationally warrants calling it a "super-comp" instead of a grammar.
It may be that I have a child taught by your friend at SHSG and I am sure that she is an excellent teacher. Personally though, if this is how she feels about the school, I would rather she resigned. To me, she is insulting the school, she is insulting the very intelligent girls in the school (and there are many of them) and does not deserve to teach there.
I am not offended by your comments, guest, don't get me wrong. However, I do feel it is extreme snobbery for someone to appear to be saying that these schools are not good enough.
A big plus for SHSG anyway, experience tells me that when it comes to happy pupils, SGSG has a huge edge over CCHS (the Chelmsford one).
A gifted daughter of a friend of mine went there. She said it was a very good school but she hated it because they would simply not allow her to be who she felt she was.
The pressure, she said, was horrendous. To quote her ... "Its a bit like being on a lifeboat in choppy water. Every now and then its man overboard and everyone has to go to the rescue and save the poor soul before she drowns on work related stress."
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Essex Girl
correction
Sorry, I keep getting the name of the school wrong, for SGSG read SHSG. Sorry again
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Guest
Re: response to Guest
Essex Girl wrote:You do have some valid points, guest, but it is both the Westcliff and Southend grammars (the four of them) that have this catchment rool, not just the "Southend" schools.
I have various friends with children at different grammar schools and have spoken both to them and indeed their children in times gone by. There does not seem to be a diference in the volume of work set. The pace of teaching may be a different story.
As to the league tables, as I said previously, you cannot expect the four Southend grammars to compete, results wise, with Chelmsford or Colchester, for obvious reasons.
I don't think that Southend Girls coming 281st out of 4,500 nationally warrants calling it a "super-comp" instead of a grammar.
It may be that I have a child taught by your friend at SHSG and I am sure that she is an excellent teacher. Personally though, if this is how she feels about the school, I would rather she resigned. To me, she is insulting the school, she is insulting the very intelligent girls in the school (and there are many of them) and does not deserve to teach there.
I am not offended by your comments, guest, don't get me wrong. However, I do feel it is extreme snobbery for someone to appear to be saying that these schools are not good enough.
A big plus for SHSG anyway, experience tells me that when it comes to happy pupils, SGSG has a huge edge over CCHS (the Chelmsford one).
A gifted daughter of a friend of mine went there. She said it was a very good school but she hated it because they would simply not allow her to be who she felt she was.
The pressure, she said, was horrendous. To quote her ... "Its a bit like being on a lifeboat in choppy water. Every now and then its man overboard and everyone has to go to the rescue and save the poor soul before she drowns on work related stress."
Disagree completely with your comments on CCHSG. Firstly, my partner taught there and has said he has never worked with such lovely children who have very happy dispositions, partly because of the way they are taught and made to feel confident. Secondly, I can count at least 8 girls I know that have gone there and loved it. This "pressure" thing is untrue - yes, they do expect the girls to achieve, but they don't put them under extreme pressure.
You are obviously an "expert" on SHSG as your children have gone there (by the way I have heard many more negative things about that school that CCHSG), but please don't try and be an expert on a school you obviously know little about.
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Essex Girl
Response to guest
I did not say I was an expert on CCHS, I most certainly am not.
I can only go on what I have heard, in the same way as you can regarding SHSG.
Every school has its good and bad points. I doubt that any are perfect. It depends on what suits your child doesn't it. At the end of the dayall that really matters to parents is that their child is doing the best they can in an environment in which they are happy.
I can only go on what I have heard, in the same way as you can regarding SHSG.
Every school has its good and bad points. I doubt that any are perfect. It depends on what suits your child doesn't it. At the end of the dayall that really matters to parents is that their child is doing the best they can in an environment in which they are happy.
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Guest
Sadly but rather predictably, having read some of your previous postings, you have misquoted me. I'll try once more!. The original poster asked for a comparison between Southend Boys and the Chelmsford/Colchester schools. I've tried to illustrate the very marginal differences in performance using government published data and made every effort point out what wonderful schools all 8 Grammars in Essex are. I live in the Brentwood area and so the Chelsmford schools are nearest to us and most of the people we know sending their children to Grammars have them at CCHS and/or Kegs. Now it could be that the term "super-comp" in reference to the Southend (but interestingly not the Westcliff) schools is snobbery but it is a term I have heard many times from different parents/tutor and teachers but I do concede it's from people who largely live in the Chelmsford catchment area. However, go to the Guardian or Times websites and see just how many non-selective comprehensives finish above the Southend schools! My kids don't go there so I couldn't care less anyway. By the way, your anecdote about CCHS is just the usual propaganda put out by disaffected parents who couldn't get their kids into a premier league Grammar or any Grammar at all. It’s a million miles from the truth.