CEM & GL

[BlueBerry]

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping that my son will sit the 11+ exams in 2017. I'm not planning on getting a tutor, but this is only because I live about 12 miles from the nearest tutor & I work. For selfish reasons I do not wish to battle the traffic in getting to Croydon or Sutton after work.

So I'm planning to doing some work with him myself and I'm getting confused. I've bought the Bonds 11+ books. I have also spent obscene amount of money on CEM 11+ books as I thought we were going to move to a different county (but we are not now).

Can someone please explain how the Surrey 11+ works? From reading through the posts it seems that that Sutton school write their own tests. So can I use my CEM books or not? One poster mentioned that the multiple choice question "will obviously be GL". Why is this? What is the difference between CEM & GL? I thought that there were different exam boards. Why does it matter which papers/ books I use? Isn't the 11+ all about the curriculum so if the child knows the curriculum then he/she should be able to answer the questions regardless of whether the paper were written by CEM or GL?

Sorry for all of the questions but I think this is a fundamental issue that I am struggling to understand

[scary mum]

I'm not in your area, but I'm sure someone in the know will be along to help soon. In the meantime dies this help?
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/school ... ey-11-plus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ladymuck]

I did ask on your earlier thread which CEM books you have. The GL comment is not true for the boys schools but used to be true for the girls schools. And the format and timing of the exam, which is now written by the schools, has been closer to the timings of GL for maths.

I would also be cautious about concentrating too much on stage 1. It is obviously important to come in the top third of so of those sitting, but getting a place at Wilsons or Sutton depends on the 2nd round written papers (which are entirely different from either GL or CEM)

Going into year 5 I would say that the emphasis is identifying and closing any gaps, especially on maths, vocabulary and writing. The maths topics and vocabulary covered by GL and CEM should be similar (though there is always the question as to whether 3D nets are included or not). However the style of paper, and the exam techniques which therefore suit them are quite different IMO. again without knowing the exact books it is hard to comment, but I would expect you should be able to tweak any papers to make them suitable for the Sutton format. And you can sign up for the Sutton mocks which will give you a good idea as to how he is doing.

Without knowing the exact books you are using my only cautions would be a) it is too early to be covering practice papers at this stage - you need something systematic to ensure you cover the KS2 curriculum by April/May, b) potentially the papers will be too difficult before you do this groundwork leading to discouragement and the risk of running out of unseen papers closer to the exam, and c) the material won't cover the longer wordy maths problems where setting out workings clearly is essential, and the 30 minute/55minute writing tasks.

Out of interest, where do you live that is close enough to the schools but 12 miles away from the nearest tutor!

[BlueBerry]

Hello Ladymuck,

Thanks again for your reply. I am so sorry I haven't seen/remember your post asking about the books that I currently have. So far I have bought these books from Amazon:

Schofield & Sims
Mental Arithmetic 3
Mental Arithmetic 3 Answers
Mental Arithmetic 4
Mental Arithmetic 4 Answers
Mental Arithmetic 5
Mental Arithmetic 5 Answers
Mental Arithmetic 6
Mental Arithmetic 6 Answers
Progress Papers in Mathematics 1
Progress Papers in Mathematics 2
Progress Papers in Mathematics 3
Understanding Reasoning: Non-verbal Reasoning
Understanding Reasoning: Verbal Reasoning
Key Stage 2 Maths Revision Guide
Key Stage 2 Maths Practice Papers
Key Stage 2 English Revision Guide
Key Stage 2 English Practice Papers

Bond Books
Bond: Maths: No Nonsense: 9-10 Years
Bond: Maths: No Nonsense: 10-11+ years
Bond 11+: Maths How to Do
Bond 11+: Maths: Assessment Papers: 9-10 years Book 1
Bond 11+: English Assessment Papers: 9-10 years Book 1
Bond 11+: English: Assessment Papers: 9-10 years Book 1
Bond 11+: Verbal Reasoning: Assessment Papers: 9-10 years Book 1

CGP Books
10-Minute Tests for 11+ English (Ages 10-11)
10-Minute Tests for 11+ Maths (Ages 10-11) - CEM Test
10-Minute Tests for 11+ Non-Verbal Reasoning (Ages 10-11) - CEM Test
10-Minute Tests for 11+ Verbal Reasoning (Ages 10-11) - CEM Test

Eleven Plus Exams Books
11+ Verbal Reasoning, Grammar & Spelling for CEM, Multiple Choice Practice Tests Included (First Past the Post)
11+ Essentials Comprehensions (Classic) Practice for CEM: Book 1 (First Past the Post)
11+ Essentials 3D Non Verbal Reasoning for CEM: Book 2 (First Past the Post)
11+ Essentials Comprehensions (Contemporary) Practice for CEM Tests: Book 2 (First Past the Post)
11+ Essentials Cloze Practice Tests for CEM: Book 1 (First Past the Post)
11+ Essentials Numerical Reasoning Practice for CEM Tests Book 1 (11 + Essentials (First Past the Post) for CEM)
11+ Essentials Verbal Reasoning, Vocabulary for CEM Multiple Choice Book 1 (First Past the Post)
11+ Essentials Numerical Reasoning Practice (Multi-part Worded Problems) Book 2 for CEM Tests (First Past the Post)

My son is currently working on the Bonds books 9-10 papers (both maths & English) and the Schofield& Sims mental maths book 3. We try and do some times tables exercises but this is a bit of a hit & miss. What has surprised me though is that his English seems to be much stronger than his maths. His comprehension is pretty good but he needs to increase his vocabulary. I have recently bought the Bonds 11+ how to maths book in the hope that some of the explanation for the maths principles are explained well as I'm struggling to explain some concepts to him. Are there any books that I can get to increase his vocabulary list? He went through a phase of not reading for a while but he just recently started reading for around 15-20mins per day.

Finally, I live in a village called Fetcham, just outside of Leatherhead. My husband works in Epsom & if my son gets a place at SGS then he will be dropped off at the railway station - his train journey will be 8mins But if he doesn't get a place at SGS then commuting to Wilsons or Wallingford will be a problem as I do not want his total journey being over 1hr (door to door). I am of course being positive & assuming that he will pass the 11+ tests!

[Ladymuck]

I trust that you have read the SGS admissions policy carefully. Unfortunately it does not favour boys who live at a distance. He will need to be in the top 60 places to get an offer. Furthermore SGS doesn't rank on each score but puts the boys into 4 mark bands and then selects by distance from within the bands. There will usually be 30+ boys in each band, so essentially he needs to be in the top 30 marks. The Bucks grammar system is VERY different in that 30% of Bucks pupils go to grammars, so you just have to "pass". Plenty of boys and girls "pass" the Sutton grammar tests and still don't get a space. You and he are about to have to put in a lot of work with only a small chance of a place at the end of it. Local children obviously have to put in the same effort but they have more schools available as well as the Whitgift foundation schools which offer very generous bursaries.

Having a quick look at the books, you won't need to cover non-verbal. In terms of verbal reasoning it is just the style of question that covers vocabulary meanings, so no codes, hidden words etc. You won't get much use out of the 9-10 books either - he should be getting onto the 10-11 fairly quickly with a view to working on the 11-12 books by the spring/summer term. Most of the maths books will test the basics and I guess you're relying on the Bond "How to Do" maths to teach the topics. I don't think that any of these books cover written English at all. Sutton will usually have a creative piece and a non-fiction piece.

[BlueBerry]

Thanks Ladymuck. Really helpful post

[Jojo76]

Hi blueberry

My daughter will take a cem test in sept 2017 although in a different region. I have also spent an enormous amount of money on similar book.

How are you planning on getting through all your books ? Daily tasks?

I am intrigued to know whether people think this is an excessive amount of books to get through or fairly standard or not enough ? As I have a similar amount that now look quite daunting to approach.

[Daogroupie]

I don't understand why you bought them all now? Why wouldn't you just buy them as you go along. There is plenty of stock in the forum shop, on amazon and in Smiths and Waterstores.

Does it not make the task feel a bit overwhelming? DG

[BlueBerry]

I was pretty stupid in buying it all.

The CEM stuff was bought all at once as I was keen to start doing some work with my son & wanted a variety of topics to keep him interested. I think we've only touched some of the comprehension books & that's it!

But yes I totally agree with you in that I made this task 10x harder for myself.

[ToadMum]

I am intrigued to know whether people think this is an excessive amount of books to get through or fairly standard or not enough ?

- Yes
- Good grief, one hopes not, but, sadly, possibly
- You must be joking (but see above, unfortunately).

Sorry, you did ask . I'm afraid that had we genuinely thought that our DC needed all that to 'prove' that they were likely to benefit from a place at one of our local grammar schools, they probably wouldn't have taken the 11+.

By the way, none of the 'CEM' material actually is, of course.