Catchment Areas Birmingham

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crazycrofter
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:10 am

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by crazycrofter »

MSD wrote:
Daisy1985 wrote:
How do you know that it is highly unlikely catchment admissions will not be over subscribed? If you are wrong then it is nonsensical to use distance to school as a criteria when people are not allocated to their closest school. It would be more sensible to have live in catchment as a criteria and then rank order of score as the next criteria. Otherwise it will ultimately become selection by post code rather than academic ability.

+1

I agree more of a post code lottery for sure than academic ability. Will this stop parents outside catchment moving in to gain admission though? I don’t think!

Also a step that will be welcomed by private sector, as they will most certainly see an increase in higher ability candidates applying, who otherwise fall outside of the grammar catchment. I suspect this to reflect in long term results too between KES/KEHS and KE grammars.
This was the case back in the 80s - my brother went to KES on a scholarship because he wasn’t eligible for the grammars. KES had better results than all the grammars back then.
UmSusu
Posts: 1015
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by UmSusu »

Rooroo I think you make a fair point about how it effects places like Sandwell but you would still be a category 5 candidate - and ranked by score. We cannot be sure of what it means in practice yet.

At the moment, the lowest cut-off for a place at any of the grammars is usually between 205-8. The same number should still be able to qualify for a place but the distribution of the lowest scoring candidates across Birmingham may well change.

Those scoring 220+ will have more certainty about where they end up within Birmingham but it will be a lot more uncertain for those scoring between 205-219 and those outside Birmingham.
UmSusu
Rooroo
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by Rooroo »

UmSusu wrote:Rooroo I think you make a fair point about how it effects places like Sandwell but you would still be a category 5 candidate - and ranked by score. We cannot be sure of what it means in practice yet.

At the moment, the lowest cut-off for a place at any of the grammars is usually between 205-8. The same number should still be able to qualify for a place but the distribution of the lowest scoring candidates across Birmingham may well change.

Those scoring 220+ will have more certainty about where they end up within Birmingham but it will be a lot more uncertain for those scoring between 205-219 and those outside Birmingham.
My DS scored 242 this year. I wonder with these new changes if he would have been eligible for a place as a category 5.
Rooroo
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by Rooroo »

I think you can still apply, but the priority will be given to children in the catchment area first. You will fall under criterion 5 for your closer school, but criterion 4 for your catchment school. You can always put the school closer to you as first choice and the school of your catchment area 2nd choice. This way you will be guaranteed a school of 2nd choice and in waiting list for 1st choice. If I understand correctly.
We don't live in any of the catchment areas though. Just outside.

Sorry I missed that you live in Sandwell. In that case, you can still apply under criterion 5, but the cut off point for criterion 5 will likely to be more than 220 and will not be known until 1st March 2020.

Just curious, what is your distance to QM?
QM is 11 miles away. Not very accessible on public transport from our home but possible. KEFW is 6 miles.
Daisy1985
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:30 am

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by Daisy1985 »

MSD wrote:
Daisy1985 wrote:
How do you know that it is highly unlikely catchment admissions will not be over subscribed? If you are wrong then it is nonsensical to use distance to school as a criteria when people are not allocated to their closest school. It would be more sensible to have live in catchment as a criteria and then rank order of score as the next criteria. Otherwise it will ultimately become selection by post code rather than academic ability.

+1

I agree more of a post code lottery for sure than academic ability. Will this stop parents outside catchment moving in to gain admission though? I don’t think!

Also a step that will be welcomed by private sector, as they will most certainly see an increase in higher ability candidates applying, who otherwise fall outside of the grammar catchment. I suspect this to reflect in long term results too between KES/KEHS and KE grammars.

I don't think it will in the short term but if you look at what happens with good comprehensives it probably will in the medium and long term. You then end up with a paradoxical situation whereby pupil premium (rightly so in my opinion) have better access but those on incomes above pp who can't afford to move gradually find themselves excluded. House price bubbles around the schools and selection by postcode. To a certain extent it depends on how robust the modelling is. Does it, for example, take account of the huge birth rate spike in the next few years? Will more children sit the test now the pass mark has effectively been lowered? I broadly support the idea of catchment areas ( there are other issues with this) but it is illogical to use distance to school if people are not allocated their closest school. Catchment followed by score would resolve this contradiction and remove the possibility (and I accept it is a theoretical possibility) of the most able Birmingham children not receiving a grammar school place.
crazycrofter
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:10 am

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by crazycrofter »

The KE foundation expect all children scoring 220 plus in catchment to get in. If they’re wrong with their numbers then I think it’s unfair to rank by distance not score if they want all Birmingham children to be treated the same.

If they’re right, the most able children in Birmingham won’t miss out - but their calculations could be wrong?
Inner Chimp
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:48 am

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by Inner Chimp »

The 220 will have been worked out to allow children in the respective catchments that score over 220 to get a place possibly with few left for those outside catchment. The 220 will move year upon year depending upon what the children score and so will be reset I think each year otherwise they can’t confirm those kids in catchment would get a place.
As for areas like Sandwell, If you score over the 220 would it be distance they will use not score to determine if you get in?

Camp hill will have to take 220 kids in their locality, will even the distribution among the schools, let’s see if their teaching is as good as say other grammars like Aston Hgs that have to work harder to pull those lower scoring kids up. Interesting times.

Interestingly also Sutton schools not on there, presumably they have opted out of the test now and will have to do their own tests?
hermanmunster
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: The Seaside

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by hermanmunster »

I think the scores will change over time - the factor that they can't predict is how many more people will take the test now
KH1970
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by KH1970 »

Apologies if this is a repeat but I seem to have lost my post!

I will be surprised if all children in catchment scoring over 220 would get a place. We live less than 10 mins walk from Camp Hill and in my daughter’s class alone at least 4 girls scored over that and it’s a 4 form entry school. I’m not saying that the number is replicated in all the classes but I know of 5 others but don’t know a huge amount of parents outside of my daughter’s class! Obviously hers is only one of several primary schools in Kings Heath, which is only 1 of several areas in catchment.

Obviously I could be wrong here but there will only be around 115 non pp places?

Houses around here sell pretty quickly anyway, and have gone up in price. Sounds like that might continue!

On a side note, my daughter got 224 but didn’t particularly like Camp Hill anyway, she wanted Five Ways. Even under new rules, don’t think she would have got into Five Ways. She chose Sutton over Handsworth. Will be interesting to see what Sutton do.
thirdtimemum
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:21 am

Re: Catchment Areas Birmingham

Post by thirdtimemum »

Oh my goodness I cannot believe I am reading this. My address is Birmingham but we pay our council tax to Sandwell. My son has been working towards this exam for nearly 12 months. As rooroo stated this is one of the most deprived areas in the country with no decent schools. I live 1/2 mile from Birmingham and already have 2 children in Birmingham schools. This will mean those schools not in the scheme (Bishop vesey, Queen Mary, Sutton Girls) will then be the target for the tourists and scores will go sky high. By all means put a catchment in but do it in mileage not by local authority area.
This really is devastating for us. My son is very bright and I would expect him to score well but it seems that will no longer be the case.
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