Catchment Areas Birmingham

[Wildfuture]

I imagine a bus route that begins in Sheldon at 6.40am is exactly the kind of travel time that has been considered negatively when the plans were drawn up?

[MSD]

They might reduce those journey times, but will it be ‘local school for local children’. Not entirely sure - will be ‘local school for children relocating’, if previous stats are anything to go by. As many as a quarter of the parents relocate for a desirable catchment area, and might be more here, knowing the schools in question are some of the top performing in country.

https://www.independent.co.uk/money/spe ... 08046.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We have to also remember that likes of CHB/CHG only take children in the top 5% of those taking test, and now that will change to 25%. More of a reason for some parents to relocate to CHB/G catchment, who otherwise didn’t think their child will hit a 240+ score

[Moonsun]

Thanks for clarifying msd

And yes house prices in most cities reflect catchment areas and are vastly different in 2 sides of the same road depending on the schools

The idea of local schools for local children is good but the aim should be to improve the local comprehensives

And keep some places in Grammars on merit alone

[mike1880]

I'm not sure why it should somehow be thought more difficult for a school to cope with the huge range of ability between top 25% attainment and top 5% attainment children when a good school in a non-grammar area successfully copes with the range of ability between a bottom 5% attainment and top 5%. It's really not going to be so challenging as to sort the teaching wheat from chaff.

[kentish_man]

They might reduce those journey times, but will it be ‘local school for local children’. Not entirely sure - will be ‘local school for children relocating’, if previous stats are anything to go by. As many as a quarter of the parents relocate for a desirable catchment area, and might be more here, knowing the schools in question are some of the top performing in country.

https://www.independent.co.uk/money/spe ... 08046.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the relocating/house price thing is slightly overdone. A couple of points on that article:

1. I think the extreme figures mainly refer to London.

2. It's one thing to move into the catchment area of a Harborne/Moseley local primary, or a top comp like Arthur Terry or Tudor Grange, where a place is all but guaranteed if you live on the right road.
But I'm sceptical as to how many people would seriously uproot their whole family (With all the associated financial implications) to move into the catchment area of a school where they still only have a 1 in 4 chance of their child scoring sufficiently highly to get into the local grammar?
If every Birmingham ward is in a grammar catchment area, and the cut-offs/academic outcomes of the grammars converge over time, then what would eventually be gained by moving within Birmingham - from one catchment to another?

So the issue is primarily those parents from outside Birmingham, or those parents from within Birmingham who had reason to want to ignore their nearest grammar school over one on the other half of the city.
I have a lot of sympathy for people with siblings already at a Birmingham grammar who will no longer fall within the catchment for their younger sibling. It doesn't seem like it would require much of a tweak to the criteria to mitigate this issue, with minimal impact on available places.
I also have some sympathy for parents wanting the option of having their kids travel to Birmingham form places where local school options are very unappealing. But you can make that case for a lot of places in the country unfortunately - and Birmingham has an obligation to provide school places to the residents of Birmingham. And we know the demand for these places within the city is going to increase in coming years.
I must admit, I have slightly less sympathy for the residents of outlying towns/village who have enviable local comprehensive options - but would still like the opportunity to have a risk-free punt at one of the top Birmingham grammars.
How can it be right that a child in Kings Heath could score nearly 240, and not be able to go to the grammar school walking distance from their house? Or another child in Northfield score 228 and not be able to go to any grammar school within an hour of their house.
But meanwhile, some poor children are getting a 6:50am (!!!) Green bus from Knowle to take up places at Camp Hill?
Or a 6:48 Green bus from Wolverhampton to fill up places at Fiveways?
I know from having looked at heat maps on Schools Guide website a couple of years ago, that there were significant amounts of kids doing the journey from Knowle and Solihull over to Camp Hill.
Surely everybody can see that this is madness?
Also regarding the Green bus:
They're a private company aren't they? (Happy to be corrected)
Their routes and schedules are certainly at risk of changing every year.
For example, a Fiveways bus stopped within 200 yards of our front door for many years. But the route changed this year, so that it would now be at least a 20/25 minute walk to the nearest Fiveways bus stop. Banking everything on the availability of a Green Bus route that is subject to change/removal would surely have been a very high risk strategy - even before this proposal came along?

[MSD]

2. It's one thing to move into the catchment area of a Harborne/Moseley local primary, or a top comp like Arthur Terry or Tudor Grange, where a place is all but guaranteed if you live on the right road.
But I'm sceptical as to how many people would seriously uproot their whole family (With all the associated financial implications) to move into the catchment area of a school where they still only have a 1 in 4 chance of their child scoring sufficiently highly to get into the local grammar?
If every Birmingham ward is in a grammar catchment area, and the cut-offs/academic outcomes of the grammars converge over time, then what would eventually be gained by moving within Birmingham - from one catchment to another?

That is a fair point! You and I understand over time academic outcomes of all grammars are bound to converge as a result of these new proposals. But not all parents see that - they see CHB/CHG as the top performing grammars in country, and rightly so, as it's evident in their current results. In the short term, parents who look for academic excellence, will carry on preferring Camp Hill schools over other grammars and relocate accordingly, until the time it's clear all grammars are doing equally well.

As far as scoring 220 is concerned, it's far easier to do that than hit 240 - only 1200 places between those two scores, if we take this year's admission numbers as an example. I must also admit that since my eldest son took exam in 2012, I have seen many friends' children go through the same journey and thus far not come across a single one who has not scored 220, and by no means I am trying to take anything away from those who have not hit that mark. An average child, with a bit of hard work and informed guidance will more than likely hit that 220, than not hit it. Moreover, you have number of mock centres in Birmingham, who will easily be able to verify child's ability to hit 220, a year in advance. So, I am not entirely sure if a move based on hitting that magic 220 is such a risk for those parents who are confident in their child's ability. Yes, we all have one-off bad days but that is a risk a parent takes.

Or a 6:48 Green bus from Wolverhampton to fill up places at Fiveways?

That's exactly what my eldest does. We gave him a choice to relocate, but it never materialised as both my boys weren't keen on the move. They were rather keener on not missing playing for local football league on the weekends. And, to be honest, he has never once complained about the distance, nor has it had an impact on his school results. He also manages weekly voluntary work at two care homes, teaching assistant at two different centers and plays football league alongside all that travel. So, I think this idea of long commute might also be slightly overdone. Every child is different and some cope better than others.

[Cecilcaterpillar]

do the proposals mean that if your child scores over 220 and is a sibling, they will gain a place before a more local child?
Also will siblings OOC gain a place before the rest of OOC?
Will a child at CHB be considered as a sibling to CHG?

[MSD]

do the proposals mean that if your child scores over 220 and is a sibling, they will gain a place before a more local child?

Not if out of catchment with current proposal

Also will siblings OOC gain a place before the rest of OOC?

No, only given preference if inside catchment. No such sibling rule for OOC

Will a child at CHB be considered as a sibling to CHG?

I doubt it and someone else can correct

[Rooroo]

Still feeling very down about all this as you can imagine.

Reading through and seeing about travel times is slightly frustrating. Yes initially I did think well CHB needs a higher score it must be better! However I'm not stupid, we went to view it and I saw there was nothing magical about the place and it did not warrant extra travel time for my DS. The results are better because the intake is of a higher standard. I then feel we sensibly chose KEFW as our first choice because it is our 'local selective school'.

Anyway, I'm just rambling here but am just putting together my response to the proposals. I feel so torn because I can see so many good things about them but selfishly I'm concerned about my own children.

[MSD]

I feel so torn because I can see so many good things about them but selfishly I'm concerned about my own children.

I see many parents having similar concerns.

I am also privy to some of the questions being asked of tutors from parents worried about these proposals. The top and the most common on the list is, “do I want my I child to attend the XYZ school now?”

This might come across as snobbish to many and I am only repeating what’s being said, but the general message that is coming across is that parents want their children educated with equally bright peers and they feel that is the primary purpose behind selection. They feel there is no point having a half-way house - either be fully selective or completely abandon cut-offs.

They feel what made CHB get such exceptional results over the past decade wasn’t necessarily the teaching or the leadership, but down to the exceptionally bright boys entering on scores of 243+ - even PP children had to get 228+ on average.

Now, these parents are realising that a quarter of pupils will be on 205+ and majority of the others on 220+, statistically more closer to 220, knowing the catchment includes some of the very poorest wards in Europe. Armed with all this knowledge, they are hesitant of applying to CHB as it stands and not in a position to apply to other grammars just down to distance!

Parents are emailing tutors asking for more focus on KES and stating their preference for BV/Sutton or KES Stratford/Stratford Girls, instead of any KEVI schools. And this includes several parents who live within the Camp Hill catchment.

If these proposals get through, I am personally putting all my odds on BV and Sutton Girls cut-offs to miraculously rise from a very average 220 to 240+ and KES/KEHS results vastly improving over coming years.