Year 5 levels
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I'd be interested to hear what fm makes of that.
Camp Hill KS3 results last year were distinctly weaker in English than Maths and Science - something like level 6.6 average vs. 8 and 7 respectively if I remember correctly (sounds just like our son - 4, 5, 5 in the end - he has had quite a good year after a shaky start!) so there's probably a degree of truth, at the very least in the sense that (perhaps unlike, say, the KES exam) it doesn't penalise those who view creative writing as a form of torture.
My own gut feeling is that reading age is the best single indicator - even if a bright child is not performing at school they will often still be reading well, anything else is subject to the vagaries of the classroom environment.
Mike
Camp Hill KS3 results last year were distinctly weaker in English than Maths and Science - something like level 6.6 average vs. 8 and 7 respectively if I remember correctly (sounds just like our son - 4, 5, 5 in the end - he has had quite a good year after a shaky start!) so there's probably a degree of truth, at the very least in the sense that (perhaps unlike, say, the KES exam) it doesn't penalise those who view creative writing as a form of torture.
My own gut feeling is that reading age is the best single indicator - even if a bright child is not performing at school they will often still be reading well, anything else is subject to the vagaries of the classroom environment.
Mike
Sorry - had to 'edit' to clarify it was a quotation!
'Camp Hill KS3 results last year were distinctly weaker in English than Maths and Science - something like level 6.6 average vs. 8 and 7 respectively if I remember correctly (sounds just like our son - 4, 5, 5 in the end - he has had quite a good year after a shaky start!) so there's probably a degree of truth, at the very least in the sense that (perhaps unlike, say, the KES exam) it doesn't penalise those who view creative writing as a form of torture.' mike 1880
Yes, I think the belief is that the writing skills will develop over time, and that logical thinking is more important. However, English teachers from Camp Hill have visited local primaries to see what's actually being taught in English, as so many of their pupils struggle with it.
My own son's writing skills are quite good which was why he was able to pass for KES, but I would say this is attributed to his obsession with Harry Potter and Darren Chan books, rather than any particularly wonderful teaching methods.
I know KE is meant to be tightening up on English testing through use of cloze tests etc, but the weight of the marks still seems to lean on the numerical side.
'Camp Hill KS3 results last year were distinctly weaker in English than Maths and Science - something like level 6.6 average vs. 8 and 7 respectively if I remember correctly (sounds just like our son - 4, 5, 5 in the end - he has had quite a good year after a shaky start!) so there's probably a degree of truth, at the very least in the sense that (perhaps unlike, say, the KES exam) it doesn't penalise those who view creative writing as a form of torture.' mike 1880
Yes, I think the belief is that the writing skills will develop over time, and that logical thinking is more important. However, English teachers from Camp Hill have visited local primaries to see what's actually being taught in English, as so many of their pupils struggle with it.
My own son's writing skills are quite good which was why he was able to pass for KES, but I would say this is attributed to his obsession with Harry Potter and Darren Chan books, rather than any particularly wonderful teaching methods.
I know KE is meant to be tightening up on English testing through use of cloze tests etc, but the weight of the marks still seems to lean on the numerical side.
I think there will be something more fundamental about your son's ability, no one is going to learn writing skills from Harry Potter (although they might discover an unquenchable ambition to become an editor).
Sorry, couldn't resist the dig. Seriously, I don't think you can learn creative writing skills from reading. I think you can learn a good technique and style by doing it with the help of good advice (and that will be enough for exams and for business and technical writing), but the creative element is innate in my own opinion (based on our own two, one of whom has it in spades and one of whom doesn't).
Mike
Sorry, couldn't resist the dig. Seriously, I don't think you can learn creative writing skills from reading. I think you can learn a good technique and style by doing it with the help of good advice (and that will be enough for exams and for business and technical writing), but the creative element is innate in my own opinion (based on our own two, one of whom has it in spades and one of whom doesn't).
Mike
Just to clarify - what i mean is his love of books (whether you like the author or not- I'm not too keen on Rowling myself!) has enhanced his reading and writing skills in my opinion, as he is replicating a style of writing he has seen in print.
Granted, some kids will not have the ability to replicate but also kids who don't read much, won't have the opportunity to try.
Granted, some kids will not have the ability to replicate but also kids who don't read much, won't have the opportunity to try.
You won't persuade me, we've always had immense trouble finding books for our son to read because he's gone through everything suitable for his age (within the limits of his taste - not keen on fantasy which limits things quite a lot at this stage), most teenage stuff and is now tearing through everything we can think of in adult fiction that's not completely unsuitable (I won't say what he's reading at the moment because it would identify him, but it's a 19th century novel which I for one will never, ever read). He still hates creative writing!
Mike
Mike
yes, but i dont think 11+ exams require a gifted, creative author to pass their English exam. A friens's son passed for KES, whose stories I found very bland, although quite well written for his age, in terms of puncuation and grammar.
Whilst I accept reading has not helped your son's writing skills, (I do find this a little odd)I do feel that the majority of kids will benefit enormously from having experienced different writing styles, not to mention the impact on punctuation and spelling.
Whilst I accept reading has not helped your son's writing skills, (I do find this a little odd)I do feel that the majority of kids will benefit enormously from having experienced different writing styles, not to mention the impact on punctuation and spelling.
That tallies with my belief that you can teach technique and style if you go about it the right way. I suspect there is just not very much effort in primary schools - or at least in most in the state sector - to teach creative writing, strange as it may seem given the amount of time spent on creative writing - but I don't remember ever seeing anything in our childrens' work that was identifiably an attempt to teach them how to actually go about it (it probably needs to be done in much smaller groups than a class of 30 to be of any use). But to write something more than a bland, if well written, piece requires enthusiasm for words, imagination, empathy and other talents, and not everyone has those.
Mike
Mike
actually there is quite a lot of work about different types of writing in KS2.
Children study different genres and identify the features of different types of writing, persuasive, report , fiction, instructions, recounts, playscripts etc.
They also focus on different types of story, working on endings, beginnings, description of setting etc. This is from yesar 3 to 6.
How much sinks in, or is carried forward is another matter altogether though!
Children study different genres and identify the features of different types of writing, persuasive, report , fiction, instructions, recounts, playscripts etc.
They also focus on different types of story, working on endings, beginnings, description of setting etc. This is from yesar 3 to 6.
How much sinks in, or is carried forward is another matter altogether though!
I agree entirely that they spend a lot of time on creative writing. But I don't see anything that represents an effective, coherent attempt to explain what they're trying to achieve and why, and the plethora of different types of writing thrown at them probably only serves to confuse the issue. None of them individually gets more than a derisory amount of time and the whole exercise probably does far more harm than good.
Sorry, I'm beginning to rant...
Mike
Exactly.How much sinks in, or is carried forward is another matter altogether though!
Sorry, I'm beginning to rant...
Mike
To be fair, I think the way my son's school taught creative writing was excellent - particularly given the constraints, there were 34 in his English group!
However, I do also feel the English curriculum is overcrowded with unnecessary emphasis on writing genres irrelevant to children of their age. The time would be better spent on consolidating their skills to explain ,interpret and create text , rather than, for example, the formalities of writing a letter to the local council complaining about a messy house up the street,or how to use bullet points.
However, this cannot be blamed on the teachers, who merely apply the curriculum as opposed to writing it.Under the cicumstances, I think they do a brilliant job and certainly work harder than teachers of my generation.
However, I do also feel the English curriculum is overcrowded with unnecessary emphasis on writing genres irrelevant to children of their age. The time would be better spent on consolidating their skills to explain ,interpret and create text , rather than, for example, the formalities of writing a letter to the local council complaining about a messy house up the street,or how to use bullet points.
However, this cannot be blamed on the teachers, who merely apply the curriculum as opposed to writing it.Under the cicumstances, I think they do a brilliant job and certainly work harder than teachers of my generation.
